RMT Choice Specs T-Tar build - gen 6 ORAS

Bloodyskullz

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Alright so I made a topic before trying to inquire on which pokemon would make great allies for Tyranitar if I made him run choice specs (keep in mind this is an item most people don't bother with because they focus on other stats).

So here is what I thought of and looking for suggestions on improvements:

Tyranitar @ Choice specs
Ability: Sandstream
Quiet Nature: 0 IV in Spe
200 HP/252 SpA/ 56 Def
-Dark Pulse
-Flame Thrower
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt

Main focus of tricking people into thinking he is a heavy hitting physical attacker when in reality he will just his you hard with special moves and will do it quite well. Only stab is D-Pulse while the rest are there for overall coverage. EV spread is to provide health, a little coverage bulk in Def while maintaining a TON of damage via special moves. Thinking about lower the SpA EV's a bit to place some in SpD just for some bulk since choice specs will grant a huge boost.

Ducslops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
Brave (0 IV's in Spe)/Adamant Nature
252 HP/252 Atk / 4 SpD
-Protect
-Trick Room
-Will-o-Wisp
-Shadow Sneak

Of all the pokemon I could think of, he was able to provide me the most bulk while giving Tyranitar the speed advantage in laying down TR plus it allowed me to have a partner that doesn't share any of his weaknesses. Will-o-Wisp would lower physical attackers strength plus the status damage helps. Shadow Sneak for priority and protect is a staple in doubles. Eviolite adds really good bulk so I don't need to focus on other stats (another reason why I chose to overlook his evolution).

Conkeldurr @ Assault vest
Ability: Iron Fist
Brave Nature: 0 IV's in Spe
252 Hp/252 Atk 4 Def
-Mach Punch
-Drain Punch
-Ice Punch
-Rock Slide/Poison Jab

I wanted someone that could hit hard on the physical side since it seemed like I was lacking one of these pokemon, always wanted to use conkeldurr so it seemed like this was the perfect chance to try him out. If any pokemon like Snorlax try and come out to wall Tyranitar, nasty surprise dealing with this guy. Mach Punch is priority, Drain Punch for a little more survival, Ice punch for flyers (thinking about Thunder Punch instead for pokemon like Talonflame), last move is a toss up and not sure which one to go with.

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static/Mold Breaker
Quiet Nature: 0 IV's in Spe
252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
-Protect
-Focus Blast
-Dragon Pulse
-Thunderbolt

I wanted a mega on the team and maybe a little more electrical coverage in case T-Tar can't hit using thunderbolt especially against waters. Mega Evolving him will put me at a 3x Fairy weakness and I wouldn't be surprised if he is chosen to be swapped out for another. He hits hard and has lots of resistances but I also don't have to mega evolve him if I choose not too depending on the situation. EV spread is straight forward, not bulky enough for that type of spread.

Aromatisse @ Sitrus berry
Ability: Healer
Bold Nature
252 HP/ 96 Def / 48 SpA / 112 SpD
-Protect
-Trick Room
-Dazzling Gleam
-Psychic

2nd TR setter and useful for healing status affliction on partners. I spread out the stats a bit for the bulk effect and I think he can survive a bit longer with this. Psychic for poison targets, Dazzling gleam for dual target and protect is a staple. Not much else to say about this pokemon, lots of other TR setters are psychic and he isn't. Fairy coverage doesn't hurt.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 108 SpA / 56 SpD
  • Scald
  • Ice Beam
  • Toxic
  • Protect

One of the partners I chose for tyranitar because of his ability and I actually like using him since storm drain is a great stat booster when least expected. Bulk to take advantage of his decent stats and allow him to have enough hit points to make a dent. Thinking about earth power for coverage but I might just keep it as is. Toxic is there for damage affliction over time and protect is a staple.

Well that is the whole team. Covering Tyranitar is difficult because while he is so versatile, he has many weaknesses and that is probably the biggest con to using him. I wish he was part ground instead of rock to eliminate some of his weaknesses or reduce his x4 weakness to fighting but oh well. I tried to cover him as best as I could but there are definitely flaws I can't see. Gardevoir is a problem for me if dusclops is gone but of course, don't know how to take care of that.

All suggestions are welcome.

Thanks
 

Typhlosion

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Since you do seem to be struggling with Fairy-types a bit, at least on paper, I would say Poison Jab over Rock Slide on Conkeldurr.

It looks like you've done your research on some of the EV spreads, but I think there are also a few places where that could be improved. I sense a mindset of trying to improve everything about a Pokémon and make it equal across the board, rather than really focusing on what makes a Pokémon good in the first place. For instance, don't lower Ttar's Special Attack EVs in favor of SpD. Tyranitar gets the Special Defense boost from Sandstorm on top of the EVs you've already placed there. On the other hand, Special Attack is clearly not its best stat, so it would be best to pour as much as you possibly can into that.

The same thing happens with Dusclops. It's a hugely bulky Pokémon, meant to support your team with burns and TR rather than being a powerhouse itself. Brave or Adamant Nature with 252 Attack EVs, for a single low-power attack on a Pokémon with a mediocre-at-best Attack stat, is a huge waste in my opinion. You mention that you're using Dusclops with Eviolite over Dusknoir for the really good bulk, so why not capitalize on that? A Speed-lowering nature is the right idea, but I think you'd be better served moving all your Attack investment to Special Defense and running Night Shade in place of Shadow Sneak.

If you're willing to give up your Mega, Magearna does well in Trick Room and could go a long way towards patching up your Fairy weakness. You can run Thunderbolt to keep some of that Electric-type coverage you wanted.

I don't want to shake up the team any more (and I'm not sure I'd know where to start) but keep an eye out for Ground-type moves as you continue playing. You don't have a single resistance to them, which isn't usually a great idea.
 

Bloodyskullz

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Honestly never thought about it that way, so let me see if I can wrap my mind around it.

I never placed any EV's into SpD I placed them into Def. So I am wondering if there is a confusion now regarding that portion? I see what you are saying and I forgot that the weather provides a stat boost (is it really a stat boost or just lower damage since the weather is not in favour of the other pokemon?).

Since dusclops has a higher attack, doesn't it make more sense to utilize that and avoid using nightshade? I see no point selecting night shade or the reason behind the choice.

I don't mind ditching the mega if it makes more sense but your suggestion is gen 7, im focusing on gen 6 since it's what I have available.

By all means, shake up the team if it's needed to get closer to perfection. If i should ditch a pokemon in favour for another pokemon then I am down for it. If anything you have seen my posts in the past I have been very open to changes and suggestions. Don't hesitate to suggest shake ups.
 

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Hey there!

While I am a bit rusty with playing competitive, I might as well throw in my two cents to improve the team.


Team member changes:

:dusclops: ----> :bronzong:
The utility from Will-o-Wisp does sound appealing, especially since its Ghost typing block Fake Out and set up Trick Room but Dusclops' negatives easily outweigh its positives. Its weakness to Dark means it's easily susceptible to Knock Off, hence removing its additional bulk. Also, it's just extremely passive and it can easily be taken advantage of. Bronzong is also able to set up Trick Room and provide a better answer to Mega Gardevoir thanks to its Steel-type since you mentioned it was troubling to you. The Colbur Berry can help weaken Knock Off and it does have decent offensive presence with Trick Room.

:conkeldurr: ----> :scrafty:
totally not biased.
You've mentioned wanting to use Conkeldurr but Scrafty is a better fit for this team. While it lacks Conkeldurr's raw power, it makes up for it thanks to the utility it can provide for your team such as Fake Out, Quick Guard, and Intimidate, and it can provide your members to almost always guarantee Trick Room set ups (making your Ttar more threatening, which is your goal here). As a bonus, its low Speed plus average Attack also allows it to take advantage of it too. It can also deal with Snorlax reasonably well if needed.

Moveset changes:

:tyranitar:
Thunderbolt ----> Rock Slide
Changed EV spread.

At first, this may seem like an odd change but I feel running a mixed set with Specs might be better than only running special attacks. Tyranitar still does have a monstrous Attack stat and it allows it to do this:

0 Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 408-484 (137.3 - 162.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

16 Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 64 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 360-424 (100.2 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Thunderbolt is much weaker even with max Special Attack + Specs and I feel a Rock STAB offers much more coverage, especially since it can ignore redirection.

:aromatisse:
Dazzling Gleam ----> Moonblast
Psychic ----> Heal Pulse
Healer ----> Aroma Veil
Changed nature.

While spread damage can be good in Doubles, the immediate power from Moonblast is a better choice for Aromatisse to deal more damage since its Sp. Attack is just average. Heal Pulse can help with the longevity of your team whereas Psychic only hits Gengar and Amoonguss (there might be more but these are the common ones I can think of) and your teammates are already equipped to deal with them. While Healer sounds appealing to deal with status conditions, Aroma Veil is better since it blocks moves like Taunt and Encore which would otherwise disrupt your Trick Room setters.

:gastrodon:
Toxic ----> Earth Power
(Optional) Protect ----> Recover
Changed EV spread and nature.

While Toxic is a neat move, Earth Power allows Gastrodon to hit targets such as Volcanion and Aegislash. While Protect is fine, you could consider Recover if you feel Gastro gets worn down too fast. The EVs are there to take 2 Brave Birds from Talonflame, a Pokémon that can be problematic for full Trick Room teams since Gale Wings ignores the speed from Trick Room.

I hope this helps and good luck!

Importable:
Tyranitar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sand Stream
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
  • Rock Slide
  • Flamethrower
  • Ice Beam
  • Dark Pulse
Bronzong @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
  • Gyro Ball
  • Zen Headbutt
  • Trick Room
  • Protect
Scrafty @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
  • Fake Out
  • Drain Punch
  • Knock Off
  • Quick Guard
Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Quiet Nature
  • Thunderbolt
  • Dragon Pulse
  • Focus Blast
  • Protect
Aromatisse @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Aroma Veil
IVs: 0 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 48 SpA / 112 SpD
Relaxed Nature
  • Moonblast
  • Heal Pulse
  • Trick Room
  • Protect
Gastrodon @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 232 HP / 176 Def / 48 SpA / 52 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Quiet Nature
  • Scald
  • Earth Power
  • Ice Beam
  • Recover / Protect
 
Last edited:

Bloodyskullz

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Thanks for your reply Fafrir, definitely some interesting recommendations that I didn't think of or consider especially Talonflame who is always a problem on every team.

The one change I am highly considering is ampharos only because that opens up a lot of weaknesses for me and I haven't be able to utilize his mega unless I know for sure his threats have been removed. Not sure who I should replace it with, would love to use another mega but if that doesn't work out i'll use another pokemon.

I will try out your changes on Tyranitar but I feel thunderbolt deals with both Talonflame and Charizard Y respectively that I don't need to worry about it much. Under Sun, if I move the Def EV's to SpD, its a 2KO from Zard Y with a solarbeam.

252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Tyranitar: 316-372 (80.8 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With TR up, I will take him out, if sandstorm is up, it gets reduced.

252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam (60 BP) vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 106-126 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Talonflame usually runs unless he can definitely get the KO from his ability.

What did your EV spread for Aromatisse allow for?
 

Fafrir

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The one change I am highly considering is ampharos only because that opens up a lot of weaknesses for me and I haven't be able to utilize his mega unless I know for sure his threats have been removed. Not sure who I should replace it with, would love to use another mega but if that doesn't work out i'll use another pokemon.

I will try out your changes on Tyranitar but I feel thunderbolt deals with both Talonflame and Charizard Y respectively that I don't need to worry about it much. Under Sun, if I move the Def EV's to SpD, its a 2KO from Zard Y with a solarbeam.

252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Tyranitar: 316-372 (80.8 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With TR up, I will take him out, if sandstorm is up, it gets reduced.

252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam (60 BP) vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 106-126 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Talonflame usually runs unless he can definitely get the KO from his ability.

What did your EV spread for Aromatisse allow for?
I personally feel Mega Ampharos is fine for your team; while its Mega makes your team half weak to Fairy, it has a decent amount of support with Trick Room and it has the advantage of resisting Brave Bird from Talonflame. If you want to replace it, you could try Mega Venusaur instead, it does synerge well with Tyranitar and other Trick Room setters thanks to its ability to put foes to sleep and resist both Water and Fairy.

I still believe Rock Slide is a better option than Thunderbolt as the latter is only a 2HKO on Zard Y. I am aware Solar Beam does get reduced by sand but it's better to OHKO it rather than dance around it with weather wars and Trick Room turns. 240 HP EVs does also allow Tyranitar to survive a Solar Beam from Max Special Attack Zard Y in the sun. Plus, Rock Slide deals with Volcarona, one of the other redirection users and it can be threatening for your team if left unchecked (many variants run Giga Drain over Bug Buzz to deal with Water-types).

The EV spread for Aromatisse is your spread and I've only changed the nature because I thought you had specific calcs for Aromatisse. Its stardard spread is 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD so it can always survive Iron Head from Bisharp to at least set up a Trick Room.
 

Bloodyskullz

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Wow, so ignoring my lack of attention to detail about aromatisse, I guess your EV spread makes more sense. I honestly pulled a random number out of thin air for that pokemon.

Thinking about T-tar my focus shouldn't solely be on those 2 pokemon only, since even pokemon like Zard-X is also worth taking out as well. I am definitely going to try running this for sure.

With scrafty being mentioned (definitely good points mentioned), the points in def are for what exactly?
 

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Scrafty's EVs are to survive a Secret Sword from Keldeo as well as maximize its average Attack.
 

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Ok I am going to revive this because I actually managed to find my older specs T-Tar creation (I literally thought I lost this forever but I saved it to my email). Also it's still on the first page so no sense in creating another topic. I am going to post the original material first and hopefully from the two, a team can be reached.

Tyranitar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
  • Dark Pulse
  • Ice Beam
  • Fire Blast/Flamethrower
  • Thunderbolt
I made it clear why Specs Tyranitar is being used. I chose those moves for stab and coverage. Did my best to spread bulk evenly while maintaining longevity. Open to changes on EV spread if there is another spread which will do the same job. This EV spread I found better than the one I posted earlier.

Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 240 HP / 32 Def / 236 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
  • Shadow Sneak
  • Trick Room
  • Will-O-Wisp
  • Bullet Seed
Unusual choice yes, but look at T-Tar's weaknesses and come back. Gourgeist-Super is probably the best fit for this role in TR. Perfect fit as tyranitar is weak to ground, water, bug, fighting, steel, fairy (feels like there is no end doesn't it). Both of them cover each others weaknesses quite well actual. Talonflame being a problem for Gourgeist, ghost and ice moves also being a problem. T-tar covers him and vice versa. Shadow sneak is priority, TR for the purpose of this team, WoW covers physical mons, and bullet seed to take care of waters especially mega pert. Open to changes on EV spread.

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
  • Psyshock
  • Scald
  • Protect
  • Ice Beam
I managed to cover all area's of tyranitars weaknesses except for fighting and fairy. Slowbro is my answer. GREAT abuser of TR and his mega form provides massive bulk. Instead of focusing on what is already amazing, why not fix what is lacking? Max SpD, 240 in HP and rest into Def. 130 SpA stat is nothing to laugh at. Grass, fighting, and fire types are covered by him and I use protect for outside of TR.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
  • Earth Power
  • Flash Cannon
  • Heat Wave
  • Protect
T-Tar has a fairy weakness. Here is my answer. Decent stats and mediocre speeds allow me to use heatran under TR. I didn't take away speed in IV so I can still use him outside of TR. Set is straight forward.

Aromatisse @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
  • Trick Room
  • Moonblast
  • Toxic
  • Protect
TR setter #2. I know, I created myself another steel weakness but he fit the bill REALLY well and his ability allows me to deal with pranksters easier. No taunting saves me sometimes. Toxic for stalling, moonblast is stab so I am not walled. Protect is VGC standard.

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD
Jolly Nature
  • Protect
  • Rock Slide
  • Dragon Claw
  • Extreme Speed
Couldn't think of someone to fix the bill on this so I just slapped in Dragonite and made him physical. He has actually helped more than I thought it would especially priority weakness policy. Extreme speed is good for finishing a pokemon off. Rest of this set is self explanatory. EV spread is max bulk with most damage possible with Jolly Nature for that little bit of speed outside of TR.


Thats the team. Hopefully I can get suggestions to take this one to perfection. I will state though, even with heatran and t-tar knowing fire blast/flamethrower, steel types still pose a bit of a problem for me mainly aegislash and metagross at the time of testing this a while back.
 

Typhlosion

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Hello! I wasn't sure this had ever gone anywhere so it's good to see you again!

That said, it has been quite a while since last we talked about your team. We've switched generations, which means whole new metagames, not to mention the vastly reduced number of Pokémon from Dexit. So before we get into any of the teambuilding details, I have to ask what you built this team for, and how/where you intend to use it. Your post mentions VGC at least once; the 2020 VGC rules can be found here and it does not look like your team will entirely work. Slowbro, Heatran, and Dragonite aren't even in the game.
 

Bloodyskullz

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This is solely built around gen 6 which is I know outdated but its by the rules of that generation (hence the title). Most of that was literally a copy and paste from when it was actually relevant, which to my knowledge was like 3 years ago.

I couldn't use gen 7/8 because:

A) I don't own ultra sun/moon
B) I still have an old DS where I can use the exploit discovered and inject any pokemon I want for gen 6 (legal usage of course)
C) No time to breed for pokemon shield and sword

Off Topic: Why is your username Typhlosion and your avatar Magnezone? Always caused me some confusion.
 

Typhlosion

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Off Topic: Why is your username Typhlosion and your avatar Magnezone? Always caused me some confusion.
Heh, you're not the first one. Typhlosion is my favorite Pokemon, but I like Magnezone a lot too, and I like to mix up the Pokemon I display.

Gen VI, hmm? Been a while. I guess the biggest thing I would look at is a couple of moveset considerations. Aromatisse has several good support options like Aromatherapy and Heal Pulse. A Toxic stalling set doesn't seem to fit the style of the rest of your team, who are mostly attackers.

As for Dragonite, do you use Rock Slide much? When I played some Gen VI VGC online I used a Dragonite too, and mine had Earthquake and ThunderPunch as coverage which worked surprisingly well. ThunderPunch hit Talonflame and Suicune hard.

How do you feel about Fire Blast vs Flamethrower on Tyranitar? Any preference?
 

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Are you saying drop Toxic for Aromatherapy/Heal Pulse? I guess it can work, Toxic always worked for me because it just helped me wear down problematic pokemon. Affects most pokemon except steel/poison and any strong defensive mons just took the damage without doing much.

Dragonite was partially my answer for certain scenario's like Mega Zard/Talonflame under sun etc..I never considered thunder punch and I avoided earthquake because I couldn't always use protect with EQ around. Having Heatran's air balloon remain intact wasn't always a sure thing either. I would switch him out if someone else fits the bill more like Salamence but I find that Dragonite is more versatile and bulkier. Then again the speed bump could be a better choice since I lack it but that priority is too hard to pass up.

Fireblast vs Flamethrower - I think I had fireblast originally and I hated the accuracy (yes 85% of the time is a good rate for damage that high) but the chance to miss always hurts. I will probably lean more towards flamethrower instead of fire blast.
 

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Are you saying drop Toxic for Aromatherapy/Heal Pulse? I guess it can work, Toxic always worked for me because it just helped me wear down problematic pokemon. Affects most pokemon except steel/poison and any strong defensive mons just took the damage without doing much.
In my experience it can be really nice having those to keep your attackers going, but it's up to you. Toxic does work well with all the Protect on your team, but I don't think a lot of VGC battles usually last long enough that it would have a noticeable effect.

Dragonite was partially my answer for certain scenario's like Mega Zard/Talonflame under sun etc..I never considered thunder punch and I avoided earthquake because I couldn't always use protect with EQ around. Having Heatran's air balloon remain intact wasn't always a sure thing either. I would switch him out if someone else fits the bill more like Salamence but I find that Dragonite is more versatile and bulkier. Then again the speed bump could be a better choice since I lack it but that priority is too hard to pass up.
I don't think you necessarily need to switch Dragonite. You're right that it can be very useful with its bulk and lots of options; I love using it. I like the idea of ThunderPunch because people don't see it coming, and your team looks like it could use a little extra help against Water-types. I can't remember how prominent Rain is but Pelipper would get hit especially hard, and you need that out of the way for Tyranitar.

Fireblast vs Flamethrower - I think I had fireblast originally and I hated the accuracy (yes 85% of the time is a good rate for damage that high) but the chance to miss always hurts. I will probably lean more towards flamethrower instead of fire blast.
That's fine. I think that's what I'd do too in the same situation. Those misses hurt, man.
 

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I will try a move swap on Dragonite but I am thinking that dropping Protect may be the deciding factor. The moveset could either be:

-Thunder Punch
-Rock Slide
-Dragon Claw
-Extremespeed

or

-Thunderpunch
-Protect
-Extremespeed
-Dragon Claw

Or maybe swap out rockslide for Dragon Dance in the first move set to have someone decently fast with a good amount of bulky. 1 DD under a Jolly Nature can still out speed quite a bit of pokemon.
 

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I obviously have not played this meta in quite a long time, but I can't think of anything you specifically need Rock Slide for, aside from massively hurting Talonflame. And even then, Talonflame isn't a ginormous threat to a team packing Heatran and special Ttar. The second moveset you listed might be better, and you could even swap Protect for DD on that one if you're feeling gutsy.
 

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How well would this team have done in the gen 7 meta? I am not up to date on that generation.
 

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Ben
I did not play Gen VII VGC, so take my answer with a grain of salt, but I don't think it would have done super well. For one thing, iirc that meta allowed some Legendary Pokemon, so your team would have had to deal with objectively stronger opponents. For another, the Tapu and Intimidate Incineroar were quite prevalent, all of which do a pretty good job destroying various aspects of your team.
 
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