Knocking on Heaven's Gate - A Mafia-Less Mafia Game - OVER - Cult Wins

What should I do with this game if we don't get any more people?

  • Shut It Down

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Transform It Into Standard

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • I Don't Care

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Mystical

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Yes, lynching may be a good idea, but also remember your numbers are worst case scenario. Besides, if there are now three cults and we mislynch, then that means cult wins. I really hope CL wouldn't hit town every time, though, but we can't lynch randomly either.
 

Vivid Stardust

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Fair enough. It definitely is a worst case scenario ratio, and there is a small possibility that Cult doesn’t have three members.

I don’t want us to lynch town if we can help it this round, but at least we’ve got it narrowed down. We’re definitely going to have to question almost everyone today if we want to try and figure this out.
 

Felly

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Nothing happened to me last night either.

I'll have a more lengthy post for y'all maybe tonight before I go to bed, but definitely before I go to bed tomorrow night. I just have an eye exam in the morning before work, and I have to get up early. ;( I'd wanted to post before the end of day 2 too, but I didn't get around to it before the day ended unfortunately. I'm agreed on a lynch tonight though, but more on that later.
 

Mystical

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Also. A Mason Leader would be able to narrow the options even more, especially if they were able to recruit. I'm not saying they should reveal now, but if we do have a ML, they can keep track of who they have been able to recruit and who they haven't as an extra clue.
 

SAF

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Also. A Mason Leader would be able to narrow the options even more, especially if they were able to recruit. I'm not saying they should reveal now, but if we do have a ML, they can keep track of who they have been able to recruit and who they haven't as an extra clue.
Oh, right. I kinda wish we have one too. That would be a big help to protect townies from the cult, right?
 

Felly

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Gonna go back later and see if I can figure out who would want to target Moonwatcher to see if we can narrow down some potential subjects for lynch today. I remember Ben being on his case a bit, but I remember it being because of his activity, or lack thereof, and can't remember if there was any good reason for it.

On tonight's episode of A_T Does Controversial Stuff: /vote SAF @SAF
Apparently I learned nothing from Foolhard. But. Vivid's (beautiful) reads list pulled some stuff together for me. Especially seeing the word "cornered" again. That's just...an almost-beyond-words level of weird thing to say. If you're Town and you feel cornered because you're getting pressure for a couple ill-advised plays, falling off the face of the earth is the exact opposite of how to handle that. If you feel cornered because you're getting pressure and you're not Town...well then. But to be clear, since I guess I started a bandwagon last time, I'm not looking to lynch SAF with this vote. Y'all will know when that comes. Hopefully she'll learn from what Foolhard either didn't know to do or refused to do: no bones about it, I think I'd like to see a claim now. At this point, if she keeps up the utter radio silence I would take that as a sign of guilt. If she's genuinely Town she has absolutely no reason not to work with us.
This... really concerns me tbh. I know nothing came of it since SAF is still alive, and I know the way she spoke wasn't exactly town, but in the same vein, she wasn't really doing anything after we'd ganged up on her. Thankfully it was just because irl stuff got in the way and not because we'd scared her off by jumping on her, but still. If she'd failed to respond during the rest of day 2, I think it would've been fine. There's a reason why I never put a pressure vote on her and just pinged her: If we had scared her off and she never replied day 3, then she would've been modkilled, according to the rules, for inactivity. SAF's activity aside though, what concerns me here is that you openly admit to not have learned anything from Foolhard. You give reasoning, of course, and say you're not looking to lynch her with that vote, but the vote is still there, and your admittance to not learning anything from the Foolhard incident and potentially causing a second Foolhard situation just doesn't really sit well with me. Again, I know nothing came of it, but the intent was still there last round.

Next priority is to do some reads of my own. I'll do my best to get it done in this phase, because while I'm uncomfortable with the idea of not lynching today, I don't have a clear idea yet of who a target could be.
Again, I know nothing came of the SAF lynch, but you still voted to lynch her. This just seems contradictory to me. You're putting pressure on her by voting for her, and you said you had no idea of a clear target, but you still voted to lynch her. I don't remember you unvoting SAF, but I may have missed it. Will go back and review later.

Grr, it does frustrate me to let a day go by without lynching, but at this point I doubt we can pull anything together that wouldn't be what Moon might call a shot in the dark at our own feet.

...

Could just be my personal preference, but I'm not a fan of being okay with not lynching. I feel like, even more so than in a regular mafia game, time and numbers are not on our side, and it'd be too easy to fall into not lynching on more days after today as well.
You also seem super adamant about lynching when we do have no clear targets. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of not lynching either, but I also don't like the idea of taking shots in the dark either. The numbers weren't really on our side day 2 either. At that time, we'd lynched one town, and one was recruited. (I'm going to assume from here on out that CL has been recruiting every night unless something proves me wrong.) That left us with 7 town, 2 cult, and 1 SK at the start of day 2. We don't lynch on day 2 because we can't come to an agreement on who to lynch as everyone fears making the same mistake of lynching another town and losing us the game. We're now at the start of day 3, and another town was killed by the SK + another was recruited. The numbers now look like 5 town, 3 cult, and 1 SK. Cult will definitely recruit again tonight, and if we lynch SK, cult wins because their win condition is met. Numbers are most definitely not on our side at this point, and they definitely weren't on our side in day 2.

Okay, so this actually turned into more of a post in which I go after Ben, but I'm not gonna vote lynch him at this exact second. The day phase has just started, and I do want to at least give him (and others) a chance to respond before I vote. I also just want to go back and write out my full case for whoever I intend to lynch today because I want to ensure that I am lynching the right person.
 

Typhlosion

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Nothing happened to me last night. Shame about Moonwatcher, but at least it's gratifying to know I read him right, I suppose.
If two people are shooting at night, that makes it much harder to narrow down motivations and suspects for certain kills.
But that doesn’t make sense. When people are killed, the host states what party kills them as well. Besides that, why would Typhlosion want the motives to be confused? (Unless he meant something else, and I’m just interpreting this wrong.)
I meant this more for when kills don't go through and we don't know the identity of the shooting party, as happened with Godot Night 1.
No hard feelings at all. I'm going to respond in tomato rather than black because all the quotes are getting messy!
First of all, nothing happened to me last night. It’s awful that the Serial Killer hit a town member instead of the Cult, but there’s not much we can do about it now except for try and figure out who the Cult members are and who the Serial Killer is, preferably in that order.

Apologies for not finishing this before the end of the day last time. I promise that I planned on getting this out before, but it took me a while. I made some modifications to my responses to reflect that I’m posting this day three compared to day two.

Alright, here we go. My responses will be in my usual color. I’m responding aggressively because Typhlosion is being aggressive towards me. No hard feelings, okay?


Grr, it does frustrate me to let a day go by without lynching, but at this point I doubt we can pull anything together that wouldn't be what Moon might call a shot in the dark at our own feet.

- Why are you so focused on lynching when we’re more likely to hit town than scum? If we mislynch today, then we give ourselves no room for error today. I know not lynching isn’t the most town move, but I also don’t want to risk anything right now when we could easily mess everything up.

I'm focused on lynching because that's what wins us the game when we do it right. Being focused on lynching drives us to find the right people to lynch, as opposed to thinking "well, we won't get to it today, let's just wait til tomorrow." I understand that's not how you thought, but it could be a consequence of that line of reasoning.

Anyhow, I realize it's wholly unproductive, and likely unfair of me to say what I did about Vivid in my reads with no backup. So, I did a quick ISO of them to see if there was anything. This is hardly a case, and I got pretty nitpicky with some of it, but I figure there's no harm in getting it out.
Unless I die night one (it’s not likely, but it could happen), expect a reads list early on day two.
I get it, you're probably just talking about the odds. You were only one out of ten people still alive. But, thinking you're going to live until the next day is not something Town should ever be assuming at all, in fact usually the opposite. Especially for someone whom I would consider to be one of the more high-profile players...thinking it's not likely for you to die could lead people to believe you have a certain kind of automatic protection, eh?

- First of all, you realize this is my third game total, and only my second game on Marriland, right? Not only that, I’m really not good at this game. Even though I made several okay plays last game, I also made a ton of mistakes and assumptions. I am by no means a high profile player. Second, yeah, the likelihood of me getting killed night one was low. 1/9 chance. So? Me assuming I’m probably not going to get killed night one isn’t a scumtell. For all you know, I could be saying that because I’m the Commuter and planned on commuting night one. (This isn’t necessarily a roleclaim, I just wanted to point out that there’s other reasons why I could have made that assumption.)

Sure. I appreciate that you're getting into the game as much as you are for a new player; I don't think I did as well at that. I can see where you're coming from.

Biohazard/Lycoris: Also a townread, also possibly a TPR.
It's possible that she's trying to make herself look like a TPR so she can get a target on her back and sway the scum away from the TPRs.
So you're assuming Wiktoria's a Citizen? It's not in Town's best interests for anyone to make herself a martyr like that. And now the whole thing might be out in the open, so that the diversion wouldn't work.

- I just said it was a possibility, hence the word possible. I don’t know if Lycoris/Biohazard is a Citizen, a TPR, Cult, or the Serial Killer. I just made a guess based on how she was acting. And also, you’re wrong. Making herself a target for the Cult or Serial Killer if she is Citizen gives any investigative roles a chance to figure out who’s scum and who’s town. It’s not ideal, but it’s better than a TPR dying, right?

A Citizen dying is "better" than a TPR dying, yes, if a Townie has to die in some situation. But if that's really what Biohazard is doing, and that would be quite the strategy, you having said it makes it less likely to succeed, because the SK and CL might not consider her as their target anymore if you've led them to believe she's just a Citizen. I don't think your townread of her would have been any less convincing without potentially having leaked her master plan. Thinking of motivations like that is great, but it wouldn't have hurt to keep the theory a bit closer to your chest, you see what I mean?

SAF: Either scum or a really bad town player, I can’t tell which. I talked about this yesterday, but SAF comes across as sus for me.

- I was mostly bothered by the way SAF wrote her vote. She specifically said that she "had no choice" when she voted for Foolhard. This comes off as odd to me. We weren’t pressuring her, and there were still a few hours to go before EOD.

- She flip flopped on her votes rather quickly, going from no lynch to wanting to lynch Foolhard, to worrying about lynching him and asking if she should take her vote off.

- She never gave any specific reasoning for voting for Foolhard, and she admitted she was bandwagoning.

- Her responses to the questions were slightly vague. She answered both Biohazard's questions and Typhlosion's, but her only other responses involved voting and pointing out that Typhlosion didn't account for the Serial Killer when he was thinking about town:scum ratio.

- Says she's "cornered", which is a weird thing for a townsperson to say. If she knows she's town, wouldn't she at least try to defend herself?

- Admits that she bandwagoned and didn't have a reason to justify it

- Asking to be lynched in post #133 is either her giving up on the game or acting out of desperation because she doesn't know what to do.

- She hasn't posted since she asked to be lynched.
Thinks SAF is pretty darn suspicious. That's fine; I think most of us have at one point or another. But we also have:
I also think that SAF’s trying to defend herself now, so that’s good.
I guess this is more of a question for Vivid than anything else, but in what way do you think it's a good thing that SAF is defending herself now? Does that make her seem more town-like to you?

- I think it’s good that she’s defending herself now because if she’s town, I don’t want to lynch her. I don’t think that’s too hard to understand. If she didn’t defend herself, everyone would either a) be so worried that she’s actually scum, but not wanting to lynch because “What if she’s a newbie?” that the actual scum slips under the radar, or b) mislynch her, which messes up town. Also, I seem to remember you and literally everyone else wanting her to actually provide a defense earlier in the day. You encouraged her to justify her reasoning in post #147. Why is it suspicious that I’m glad she’s defending herself when that’s what you wanted in the first place?

And yeah, defending yourself when people think you’re suspicious can be a town move. Why wouldn’t she defend herself if she was town? Are you seriously saying that if she was really town, she wouldn’t defend herself?


The bolded part isn't hard to understand, you're right; that's how I feel about it as well. I did want her to provide a defense, and I'm glad she did because it means the game is being played. But I was asking about you, not me. Now we've both justified it to each other and I'm satisfied.

I’m not sure how I feel about not lynching today because I’m used to lynching every day in Mafia, but I don’t necessarily feel comfortable lynching today either. While I have a few people I’m suspicious of, I don’t think I can make a strong enough argument that any one person is definitely Cult or definitely the Serial Killer. I think it’ll be okay if we don’t lynch today, though, as long as we lynch tomorrow and still keep discussion going.
Could just be my personal preference, but I'm not a fan of being okay with not lynching. I feel like, even more so than in a regular mafia game, time and numbers are not on our side, and it'd be too easy to fall into not lynching on more days after today as well.

- You want me to explain why I was against lynching yesterday? Fine. I’ll do that. The short version of it is that if we lynched yesterday, we could be seriously hurting town’s chances of winning.

We had three scum yesterday: the Serial Killer, the Cult Leader, and the Cult Recruit. (While the CL could have technically not recruited night one, I think it’s safe to assume that they did. Not doing so would go against their win condition.) We had seven town. I’m going to go over what the worst case scenario would have been. Let’s say we lynched SAF day two. SAF comes up town. Considering there’s a 7/10 chance of hitting town, it’s not unlikely. Night phase happens. Cult successfully recruits town. Serial Killer hits town and Godot doesn’t heal the Serial Killer’s target. That means we have three Cult, four town, and the Serial Killer day three. If we lynch the Serial Killer, the Cult wins day four because they recruit night three and then they have a majority over town and the Serial Killer is dead (4 Cult to 3 Town). Even if they don’t recruit night three, if they nail the Serial Killer day three, the Cult is equal to the town and SK is dead, so they meet their win condition. (This doesn’t account for TPRs.) I don’t want that to happen. I want town to win, too. Since we didn’t lynch yesterday, the worst case scenario would have been that Cult has three, Town has five, and the Serial Killer is alive day three. We have a larger chance of lynching scum, we’re more likely to hit Cult, and town still has a chance of winning because we didn’t risk a mislynch yesterday.


Ah, I see. That makes sense. You are frustrated with not being able to have a good lynch candidate, I assume, but you didn't want to make any hasty decisions on too little info. I think I read that more as not being willing to find a lynch target and just letting it slide. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

The reason why I think you two are possible TPRs is because of the way you’re playing. You’ve both been pushing for lynches, heavily questioning people, and trying to get information. While Citizens can do that too, based on the tone of your posts, I don’t think you’re just a Citizen. It’s entirely possible that you’re the Vigilante, and you’re trying to figure out who the Cult Leader and Serial Killer are on your own so you can shoot them and win for town. The reason why you’re so focused on the idea of a Vigilante is because you are the Vigilante. But that’s just my theory.
Well for one thing, if I were the Vigilante for the love of everything holy please no not again I wouldn't be able to shoot the Serial Killer because of the autovest. It's one thing to speculate about roles, but another to start assigning TPRs to people out in the open. This is one of those things that it would be better to keep to your chest until it's necessary to bring out. If I were the Vig and you were Town, with my survival being important to you, you just messed up and put a giant target on my back.

- If you are really the Vigilante and you seriously think I’m the Serial Killer, go ahead and shoot me. If you’re right, and I don’t die due to my autovest, town has our lynch for tomorrow. If you’re wrong, you just killed a townie and you’ll bring everyone’s suspicions on yourself. Also, I realize Godot doesn’t necessarily trust you, and you don’t trust Godot, but even if you’re right (I’m town, you’re Vig, and I just put a target on your back), you can be protected because we have a Weak Doctor in this game.

Okay, true, but the Weak Doctor can only cover so many people at a time and I'd prefer him to not have to play mind games with multiple outed targets. And I don't think I have any reason not to trust Godot at this point. His story is credible.

As for your reads, Ben, glad to see I'm not the only one with an odd feeling. And yay for being townread. To be honest, I remember on my first game as mafia, and being on the same team as Regine allowed me to see more into her thought-process. I remember she was able to pinpoint Mark as the spree killer because of the way he'd talk about the neutral roles. That's the sort of vibe I'm getting here. Like they're not doing anything wrong per se, but they're focusing on things a cult leader might. Though at the same time, maybe a cult leader wouldn't be so transparent about their thoughts? That's mostly what's giving me pause.
Hmm. To be honest, I’m not sure what to say here. I skimmed over the thread you mentioned just to see what you were talking about, and I can see what you’re saying about talking about neutral roles in a specific way. I’ve been trying to write my posts in a way that isn’t suspicious, and I’ll try to improve my posts and wording in that respect. The best way to defend myself for now is to help town find the Cult Leader and eliminate the Cult and the Serial Killer.

I’m not the Cult Leader, and I’m not a recruited Cult Member. I can tell you that much.
So what I'm supposed to gather from this last line is that you are the Serial Killer? I know Isa was focused more on the possibility of you being CL, but it strikes me as a very weird thing to say, or to not say as the case may be. Going back to what I pointed out from your first quote in this post...hmm. Almost ninja'd on this but good point from Isa as well about this.

- Just because I didn’t specifically mention that I wasn’t the Serial Killer doesn’t mean I am the Serial Killer. You shouldn’t assume things based solely on what wasn’t there. I specifically said I wasn’t the Cult Leader or a Cult Member because Isa seemed to be specifically thinking that I was Cult based on her posts. I’m not the Serial Killer either. I’m town.

[color]This can literally be how mafia games are won or lost ftr. Anyhow, I don't think it's that big of a deal, because it was a very obvious omission. Just thought I'd check.[/color]
Also, I’d like to point something out about your posts earlier, Typhlosion.

Directed at Luke Strife, post #147: You've only mentioned SAF so far in this phase. Honestly looks a lot like coaching, so fair warning that if SAF ends up flipping cult I'll be taking a closer look at you. Any more reads on people, maybe those who don't fall so much within your bell curve of controversy?

#170: The fact that this game did not start out with a mafia team makes coaching discussions interesting. We only had two scum to begin with, not aligned with each other. Assuming CL recruited successfully last night, we're dealing with at most a scum team of 2. Now, based on her D1 play, SAF doesn't strike me as a particularly tempting choice for cult recruitment, but it's possible she's the full-blown Cult Leader, and the coaching is a more experienced recruit trying to help out their leader. However, I really can't see that happening; I'm not sure a recent convert from Town in a cult that's still very small would want that kind of attention. So, I'm not inclined to view the "coaching" that's been going on as anything more than altruistic advice.

I pointed out the other inconsistency in your post, but then you contradicted what you said earlier again.

Me talking to Typhlosion, Post #174: Also, why do you go from saying that the advice people were giving SAF was just advice rather than showing a Cult relationship to voting for SAF suddenly? It seems a bit inconsistent.

Post #176: That's a fair point, probably didn't explain myself well enough. The whole bit about coaching wasn't so much about SAF herself, but rather that I thought the people who appeared to be coaching her (Luke for instance) didn't seem suspicious to me for that reason.

And yet you said that if SAF turned out to be Cult, the coaching Luke gave her would make you suspicious of him in post #147. Posts #170 and #176 contradict what you said earlier.

I’d like an explanation for all of these contradictions you’ve posted in regards to coaching.
Sure thing. Going back to black now haha. At first, Luke's post did seem to stick out to me as possibly being coaching. I think it's because of his friendlier tone overall, as opposed to the way most others seemed to be threatening or prodding her by pointing out all the ways she wasn't defending herself. I think there can be a difference between pointing out what someone is doing wrong and suggesting ways they can do things better. As I read back more I realized most all of the posts seemed to be trying to accomplish the same general goal, which was getting SAF to do stuff. Obviously not everyone who ever poked SAF in addition to SAF herself could be Cult, so in my eyes that diminished the suspicion there since clearly a lot of people from multiple factions had the same idea.
Some of this feels like a repeat from above but no worries, here we go.

On tonight's episode of A_T Does Controversial Stuff: /vote SAF @SAF
Apparently I learned nothing from Foolhard. But. Vivid's (beautiful) reads list pulled some stuff together for me. Especially seeing the word "cornered" again. That's just...an almost-beyond-words level of weird thing to say. If you're Town and you feel cornered because you're getting pressure for a couple ill-advised plays, falling off the face of the earth is the exact opposite of how to handle that. If you feel cornered because you're getting pressure and you're not Town...well then. But to be clear, since I guess I started a bandwagon last time, I'm not looking to lynch SAF with this vote. Y'all will know when that comes. Hopefully she'll learn from what Foolhard either didn't know to do or refused to do: no bones about it, I think I'd like to see a claim now. At this point, if she keeps up the utter radio silence I would take that as a sign of guilt. If she's genuinely Town she has absolutely no reason not to work with us.
This... really concerns me tbh. I know nothing came of it since SAF is still alive, and I know the way she spoke wasn't exactly town, but in the same vein, she wasn't really doing anything after we'd ganged up on her. Thankfully it was just because irl stuff got in the way and not because we'd scared her off by jumping on her, but still. If she'd failed to respond during the rest of day 2, I think it would've been fine. There's a reason why I never put a pressure vote on her and just pinged her: If we had scared her off and she never replied day 3, then she would've been modkilled, according to the rules, for inactivity. SAF's activity aside though, what concerns me here is that you openly admit to not have learned anything from Foolhard. You give reasoning, of course, and say you're not looking to lynch her with that vote, but the vote is still there, and your admittance to not learning anything from the Foolhard incident and potentially causing a second Foolhard situation just doesn't really sit well with me. Again, I know nothing came of it, but the intent was still there last round.

Well yeah, saying I learned nothing from Foolhard was sarcastic since the situations looked similar at first glance, but I explained how it was different. I guess you're right that a pressure vote could've scared her off entirely, and I admit I didn't think about that, but the point of the pressure vote was just to scare her more than a ping, enough into coming back.

Next priority is to do some reads of my own. I'll do my best to get it done in this phase, because while I'm uncomfortable with the idea of not lynching today, I don't have a clear idea yet of who a target could be.
Again, I know nothing came of the SAF lynch, but you still voted to lynch her. This just seems contradictory to me. You're putting pressure on her by voting for her, and you said you had no idea of a clear target, but you still voted to lynch her. I don't remember you unvoting SAF, but I may have missed it. Will go back and review later.

You're right, I don't think I ever did bother to unvote, and that could have been a mistake on my part, but I knew it wasn't a big deal since clearly she wasn't getting enough votes to be lynched. And no, I did not vote to lynch her. You say it right there, I was voting to put pressure on her. How does that translate to voting to lynch her?

Grr, it does frustrate me to let a day go by without lynching, but at this point I doubt we can pull anything together that wouldn't be what Moon might call a shot in the dark at our own feet.

...

Could just be my personal preference, but I'm not a fan of being okay with not lynching. I feel like, even more so than in a regular mafia game, time and numbers are not on our side, and it'd be too easy to fall into not lynching on more days after today as well.
You also seem super adamant about lynching when we do have no clear targets. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of not lynching either, but I also don't like the idea of taking shots in the dark either. The numbers weren't really on our side day 2 either. At that time, we'd lynched one town, and one was recruited. (I'm going to assume from here on out that CL has been recruiting every night unless something proves me wrong.) That left us with 7 town, 2 cult, and 1 SK at the start of day 2. We don't lynch on day 2 because we can't come to an agreement on who to lynch as everyone fears making the same mistake of lynching another town and losing us the game. We're now at the start of day 3, and another town was killed by the SK + another was recruited. The numbers now look like 5 town, 3 cult, and 1 SK. Cult will definitely recruit again tonight, and if we lynch SK, cult wins because their win condition is met. Numbers are most definitely not on our side at this point, and they definitely weren't on our side in day 2.
I was adamant about lynching, yes. We had no clear lynch targets, yes. That's the entire point. That's the whole reason I was frustrated, is that I wanted to lynch and we didn't have anybody.

If there's still some ambiguity just let me know. Not going to get into any proactivity of my own right now because it's late and I have to be up early tomorrow.
 

Luke Strife

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It was a quiet night for me, too.

Losing Moonwatcher sucks, but as was said before, at least there was some validation for him being town after all.

One question I'd like answered in response to the small discussion at the start of the day, Weak Doctors die if they visit a scum target, but is that if they visit them at all, or only if they heal them during an attack ( @Varhii )? Because depending on the answer to that, then it might not be so easy to determine identities from Godot's night action, after all. Like, if he only dies when someone is healed and not simply just visited with no incident then there's no way to verify if someone is scum from this action if they just weren't attacked at all that night. Not saying that I doubt Isa's identity as a townie at this point, but I would appreciate the rules clarification.

We probably should seek to lynch someone today for sure, with caution. We don't want to enter a scum-majority scenario. Also it's worth mentioning that Cult doesn't just win from that, they also have to kill off the SK too. Though I suppose once a majority has been established, it ought to be a relatively simple affair to find out who the SK is, as they're not part of their club.
 

Mystical

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awful that the Serial Killer hit a town member instead of the Cult, but there’s not much we can do about it now except for try and figure out who the Cult members are and who the Serial Killer is, preferably in that order.
What? Why in that order? Scum is scum after all. Are you the SK then??

Oh, right. I kinda wish we have one too. That would be a big help to protect townies from the cult, right?
Yes, absolutely.

Also it's worth mentioning that Cult doesn't just win from that, they also have to kill off the SK too. Though I suppose once a majority has been established, it ought to be a relatively simple affair to find out who the SK is, as they're not part of their club.
So what, we just wait until cult have reached the majority? You do realize if they do, town basically lost, right? Are you part of the cult then??

I'm thinking Vivid Stardust may really be our SK. Part of it is what they said in their post, about how they wanted to find cult and SK in that order and how it's so bad that SK hit town instead of cult, as if they are the ones who wanted to hit cult. And here's another thing. Ben and I put our suspicions on them, and so they were a safer target than Moon. Also, an SK would be worried that they were, in fact, the cult leader, and would have tried to shoot them. SK must know they're in danger of cult outnumbering the town and the SK themselves. So they would have target someone they thought was cult, and why not someone who would have been suspected as the cult leader? See where I'm going?
/vote Vivid Stardust

Also, if we knew who cult leader was, they would be our priority. But as we don't, we have to vote the next best scum.
 

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I'm checking in, nothing happened to me last night.
 

Mystical

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Also, I want to hear more from everyone than just "nothing happened to me last night." I expect at least some kind of analysis from the last day. I know irl stuff happens, but we did have two days to think things through. Come on, don't be passive, please.
 

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Still waiting on a check-in from @LuluRina Not technically waiting on a check-in from Biohazard, but come on, you can do more than that.

awful that the Serial Killer hit a town member instead of the Cult, but there’s not much we can do about it now except for try and figure out who the Cult members are and who the Serial Killer is, preferably in that order.
What? Why in that order? Scum is scum after all. Are you the SK then??

I'm thinking Vivid Stardust may really be our SK. Part of it is what they said in their post, about how they wanted to find cult and SK in that order and how it's so bad that SK hit town instead of cult, as if they are the ones who wanted to hit cult. And here's another thing. Ben and I put our suspicions on them, and so they were a safer target than Moon. Also, an SK would be worried that they were, in fact, the cult leader, and would have tried to shoot them. SK must know they're in danger of cult outnumbering the town and the SK themselves. So they would have target someone they thought was cult, and why not someone who would have been suspected as the cult leader? See where I'm going?
/vote Vivid Stardust

Also, if we knew who cult leader was, they would be our priority. But as we don't, we have to vote the next best scum.
I'm not sure it's fair of you to say that the Cult Reader would be our priority if we knew who it was, but to criticize Vivid for saying the cult members would be their priority over the SK. I agree, scum is scum, so let's lynch whatever scum we can find, purple or red.

I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning about Vivid being upset the SK hit town because they themself wanted to hit cult. I think that's just a general reaction; of course most of us would prefer if the SK hit cult, because that's less work we have to do. For example, SAF said practically the same thing:
But still, for SK to hit a townie of all people...
One of my priorities for today is to investigate Biohazard a bit more. I wasn't sure about her when I made my reads list and I'm still not. She seemed pretty town-like on Day 1, but her activity and contributions have dropped off a good deal since then.
 

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You're missing my other point. Why did SK not kill them? Since we had pointed them as suspicious, it would seem reasonable for SK to target them instead of Moon. And weren't you the one saying they may be SK? Why are you now defending them, then? Sorry but my vote stays.

Though I agree about Victoria tbh. She's being way too passive.

Anyway, may not be very active today.
 

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Checking in because I wasn't able to get online at my normal time. Had to move rooms, and we thought we'd be moving at ten it took an hour and a half after ten before we were able to move.

Isa, while I'm not 100% on this I think your suspicion of Vivid might be fair, I noticed the same problem in that post but hadn't called attention to it at the time. And Felly's right about numbers being against us. I also agree that we have to watch Biohazard's responses closely, although the same can be said of literally everyone else in the game at the moment. I'll keep an eye on Vivid's posts from here on out, because Isa made a good point. If I think of anything to add, or notice a detail that sticks out to me I'll let y'all know.
 

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It's also worth noting that on Day 2, Vivid had only denied charges of being CL or culted. So the possibilities are they were telling the truth about one, telling the truth about both and actually being town, or telling the truth about both while being SK. And I'm thinking it's probably option 3.
 

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You're missing my other point. Why did SK not kill them? Since we had pointed them as suspicious, it would seem reasonable for SK to target them instead of Moon. And weren't you the one saying they may be SK? Why are you now defending them, then? Sorry but my vote stays.

Though I agree about Victoria tbh. She's being way too passive.

Anyway, may not be very active today.
I poked Vivid on a lot of minor, even nitpicky stuff. I'm satisfied with their answers and we got some good discussion out of it. And that aside, it's not necessarily defending them to point out what I see as flaws in your reasoning.

No, I think it's the exact opposite. Painting Vivid as suspicious is a reason for SK not to bother with them. If the SK sees Vivid being pressured, SK would think that there's a decent chance, more so than for other players, that Vivid would end up getting lynched in the Day phase. It makes more sense for the SK to go after someone less likely to be lynched by Town, and they must've decided Moonwatcher fit the bill.
 

Vivid Stardust

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Based on my prior suspicions and what Mystical just pointed out about Luke’s post today, my personal guess as to who the Cult might be is Luke Strife. As Mystical pointed out, this quote seems suspicious:

We probably should seek to lynch someone today for sure, with caution. We don't want to enter a scum-majority scenario. Also it's worth mentioning that Cult doesn't just win from that, they also have to kill off the SK too. Though I suppose once a majority has been established, it ought to be a relatively simple affair to find out who the SK is, as they're not part of their club.
Luke seems to want the Cult to get a majority over town so we can figure out who the Serial Killer is. That definitely seems anti-town. That’s not all, though. Luke hasn’t seemed to be scumhunting at all this game. (Say what you want about me being focused on Cult rather than Serial Killer, Mystical, at least I’m trying to hunt for the Cult.) I pointed out that he was being very vague in regards to his suspicions in my reads, and that he seemed to not want to question anyone. He hasn’t really questioned anyone based on what they’ve said, even the people who seemed suspicious, such as Foolhard, SAF, and myself. Not only that, his two reads lists on day two didn’t indicate who he found suspicious. Maybe it’s just a gut feeling, but even people with less content in their reads lists indicated who they found suspicious. I get that he’s in a different time zone, but I would have expected a little more by day three.

I know I’m not the only one who has thought that Luke is suspicious. Godot mentioned that Luke’s posts seemed odd in post #149. Before he died, Moonwatcher put Luke on his list of potential Cult members, among other people. Typhlosion was suspicious of Luke, too, and Luke was one of the people he read as sus in post #189. In post #154, LuluRina put Luke near the bottom of her trust list. Mystical just pointed out that Luke might be cult based on what he said.

I’m going to /Vote Luke Strife. If you are actually town, why haven’t you been trying to question people or scumhunt? Why aren’t you pointing out suspicious people? I need an answer.

Also, to address this post:

awful that the Serial Killer hit a town member instead of the Cult, but there’s not much we can do about it now except for try and figure out who the Cult members are and who the Serial Killer is, preferably in that order.
What? Why in that order? Scum is scum after all. Are you the SK then??

I'm thinking Vivid Stardust may really be our SK. Part of it is what they said in their post, about how they wanted to find cult and SK in that order and how it's so bad that SK hit town instead of cult, as if they are the ones who wanted to hit cult. And here's another thing. Ben and I put our suspicions on them, and so they were a safer target than Moon. Also, an SK would be worried that they were, in fact, the cult leader, and would have tried to shoot them. SK must know they're in danger of cult outnumbering the town and the SK themselves. So they would have target someone they thought was cult, and why not someone who would have been suspected as the cult leader? See where I'm going?
/vote Vivid Stardust

Also, if we knew who cult leader was, they would be our priority. But as we don't, we have to vote the next best scum.
First of all, I think it’s reasonable to hope that the Serial Killer might accidentally hit Cult, and I think it’s reasonable to be upset that the SK hit a town member. I don’t think that proves that I’m the Serial Killer. I also think we should try to get Cult out of the way first because it’s easier for the town to win if the Cult is out of the way. If we hit the Cult today, we can prevent a town loss. We can’t do that with the Serial Killer at this stage of the game because the Cult can win easily with the SK dead.

I italicized that last line because it bothers me. Even if I am the Serial Killer (which I’m not), we can’t hit the Serial Killer today. You are aware that if we lynch the Serial Killer, the Cult can win day four if they have three members currently, and recruit a town member night three, right? Lynching the Serial Killer would be gamethrowing if you’re town. We need to hit the Cult today, period. If we hit town, town will probably lose, and if we hit the SK, town definitely loses.
 

Biohazard

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Okay guys, I'm sorry that I was not active during D2. I'll be active D3 because I won't be busy that much.
 
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