Knocking on Heaven's Gate - A Mafia-Less Mafia Game - OVER - Cult Wins

What should I do with this game if we don't get any more people?

  • Shut It Down

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Transform It Into Standard

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • I Don't Care

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Vivid Stardust

~ Like Stars In The Sky ~
Join Date
Nov 9, 2018
Posts
281
AKA
Vivid, Apollo
Gender
Other
@Biohazard My guess is that we have at least one of Jailor/Gunsmith/Vigilante. My reasoning is that town needs to be able to get rid of multiple people per day/night cycle, especially in a cult game, and town also needs to be able to gather information about who’s who. Jailor allows for information gathering as well as the possibility of killing either the cult or the Serial Killer, and Gunsmith and Vigilante allows for multiple opportunities for town to hit cult/Serial Killer. In a way, Gunsmith and Vigilante are informative roles too. The Serial Killer has an autovest according to the rules post, so if someone shoots the SK, the SK won’t die. Seeing as the only other way for a shot to fail is if the person is in jail, if someone gets shot, but doesn’t die, that person is almost certainly the SK. I don’t think we have all three though. I have no clue what other roles might be in the game.

As Typhlosion said, it’d be a bit weird to have duplicate roles in such a small game.

None of y’all gave me an answer about what roles you think are involved.
 

Rainbow Rocket Grunt

Team Rocket Grunt
Rainbow Rocket Grunt
Join Date
Jan 16, 2019
Posts
657
Location
Team Rainbow Rocket Headquarters
AKA
Aimee, Lulu, LuluRina, Rina, ALL HAIL GIOVANNI!
Gender
Female
Time Zone
GMT+11
IGN
Lulu
@Typhlosion I'm not saying you look like town because you have two posts
I'm saying you look like town because your two posts(now 3) are very towny

And I honestly don't know about Bio. Her posts I wouldn't say are scummy, yet I wouldn't place as a town read either
She's more like a neutral with a slight town lean.

Also the only time I would concern myself about how many posts someone contributes is if they literally decide to post rarely.
 

Godot

Coffee Drinkin' College Student
Rainbow Rocket Grunt
Join Date
Nov 15, 2018
Posts
3,192
Location
Texas
AKA
Connor
Gender
Male
Time Zone
Central Time
I'm not sure if I can trust Ben. He could be writing posts that read like town to conceal his true alignment. I'm not sure one way or the other, but it's a possibility.
 

Biohazard

21st Century Schizoid Man
Rainbow Rocket Grunt
Join Date
Nov 1, 2018
Posts
1,679
Location
Behind you
AKA
Wiktoria, Lycoris
Gender
Female
Time Zone
UTC+2
I'm not sure if I can trust Ben. He could be writing posts that read like town to conceal his true alignment. I'm not sure one way or the other, but it's a possibility.
Who do you think is town in the game?
 

Master Magics Five

no more robot captains.
Join Date
Jan 11, 2019
Posts
230
Location
heck
AKA
Efflore, BloodClaw
Time Zone
EST (UTC -5:00)
Switch FC
SW-4046-4239-6610
How much Mafia experience do you have?
I've played Werewolf and Town of Salem here and there. More as a pseudo-random chance game with friends more than anything, though.

If you had to pick one person as scum right now, even on gut instinct or a wild guess, who would it be?
Possibly Biohazard. If not because her theme is the most menacing out of the lot, then because actively communing and encouraging such right away is intéressant. 👀

I'm totally unsure of the TPRs, especially because of my previous experience, since they would be much more randomly decided.
 

Godot

Coffee Drinkin' College Student
Rainbow Rocket Grunt
Join Date
Nov 15, 2018
Posts
3,192
Location
Texas
AKA
Connor
Gender
Male
Time Zone
Central Time
Hard to say. Only thing I know for certain is that I'm town. I need more evidence before I can make a guess about the rest of ya.
 

seaturtle

Go Beyond! Plus Ultra!!
Administrator
Rainbow Rocket Executive
Join Date
Oct 23, 2018
Posts
1,331
AKA
Chris
Gender
Male
Time Zone
MST
Since SG doesn't seem to be up right now and I might be helping a little bit with starting day/night phases, I figured I'd drop in and remind everyone of this rule since a few people have been breaking it:

Do not use the reactions on posts in this thread while the game is ongoing.
If you want to express something about someone else's post, post about it instead of leaving a reaction.
 

Vivid Stardust

~ Like Stars In The Sky ~
Join Date
Nov 9, 2018
Posts
281
AKA
Vivid, Apollo
Gender
Other
Whoops, totally missed that in the rules! Sorry Bubba, Varhii, I won’t do that again.

So far, 8 people out of 11 have posted. We’ll have to see if that level of activity continues. The people who haven’t posted are @Luke Strife, @Moonwatcher, and @Mystical/Isa.

Here’s a post count:
Biohazard/Lycoris: 7
SAF: 2
Vivid Stardust (Me!): 3 (4 counting this post)
LuluRina: 4
Felly: 1
Typhlosion: 3
Godot: 4
Foolhard: 1


In regards to everyone being suspicious of Biohazard/Lycoris, I think she’s trying to be more aggressive and play as best she can this time around. It’s not necessarily indicative of her role, she’s just trying to improve from last time and possibly take a leadership role in the town (not that she was bad last time, she was just very new).

While it’s true that Typhlosion could be trying to appear to be town but actually be cult/SK, I think he’s just trying to be helpful for the most part.
 

Biohazard

21st Century Schizoid Man
Rainbow Rocket Grunt
Join Date
Nov 1, 2018
Posts
1,679
Location
Behind you
AKA
Wiktoria, Lycoris
Gender
Female
Time Zone
UTC+2
I don’t have much experience with TPRs, but here are my theories which ones are in the game and what benefits they have.

Doctor
- The Doctor heals a person and can help benefit the Town, because a Townie survives thanks to the Doctor.

Sheriff – Sheriff is an informative role, due to its investigating nature. Sheriff can choose someone to investigate and then they will be notified of the person’s faction.

Vigilante – The Serial Killer has an autovest, and cannot be shooted, so the Vigilante shoots someone who is a SK, we can know if the person is a SK.

Gunsmith – Gunsmith can make a gun for someone. So if the person who gets the gun from the Gunsmith, and shoots at someone who is SK, it is known that the person is a SK.

Jailer – Since the Serial Killer cannot be shooted, and the Jailer can hold someone in the jail. They can choose to execute the person or not. It’s a good informative role because if the Jailer decides to kill someone and if the person is SK and gets killed by the Jailer. Same goes for the Cult Leader killed by the Jailer.

Other possible roles

Weak Doctor
– Has the same capalities as Doctor, expect if they choose the wrong person (who is the Cult or SK), they die. Can be a good informative role because if the Weak Doctor dies because of choosing the wrong person, then we can know who is the culprit.
 

Vivid Stardust

~ Like Stars In The Sky ~
Join Date
Nov 9, 2018
Posts
281
AKA
Vivid, Apollo
Gender
Other
@Biohazard A lot of that kinda reiterated what I said before, but I wanted to point something out.

Other possible roles

Weak Doctor
– Has the same capalities as Doctor, expect if they choose the wrong person (who is the Cult or SK), they die. Can be a good informative role because if the Weak Doctor dies because of choosing the wrong person, then we can know who is the culprit.[/SPOILER]
As far as I’m aware, we don’t learn who the doctor chose to heal if the person doesn’t also get attacked. If the Weak Doctor heals the Cult Leader, let’s just say, the Weak Doctor dies. But the Cult Leader wouldn’t get a notification that they were healed unless they were also attacked, and we wouldn’t know who the Weak Doctor tried to heal. We might get the role of the person they tried to heal, but not the name. Actually, that’s a good question. @Varhii @seaturtle, If a cult member or the Serial Killer gets attacked, but they are healed by the Weak Doctor, how does that work?

Also, I’m guessing that if the Jailor kills their prisoner, we learn that the prisoner was specifically killed by the Jailor, right?
 

Varhii

Shaggy Webber
Rainbow Rocket Grunt
People of Play
Join Date
Nov 1, 2018
Posts
1,353
AKA
SG
Gender
Male
Time Zone
EST
If a cult member or the Serial Killer gets attacked, but they are healed by the Weak Doctor, how does that work?

Also, I’m guessing that if the Jailor kills their prisoner, we learn that the prisoner was specifically killed by the Jailor, right?
Scum gets attacked and healed. Weak doctor dies from targeting scum.

Yep.
 

Typhlosion

Tempered Steel
Moderator
Rainbow Rocket Executive
Cult Classic
League Champion
Join Date
Oct 23, 2018
Posts
1,573
Location
Olivine City
AKA
Ben, A_T
Gender
Male
Time Zone
US Central (GMT -6:00)
3DS FC
2724-0144-2557
IGN
Ben
I don't think we need to be too aggressive about activity right away. The game did start quite unexpectedly, and it's only because I'm on spring break that I've been able to post yet at all. If things are like this in a day or two (real time) then we can start getting pushy.

Seeing as the only other way for a shot to fail is if the person is in jail, if someone gets shot, but doesn’t die, that person is almost certainly the SK.[/COLOR]Based on my understanding, the presence of a Commuter could also potentially cause a shot to fail.
I'm not sure if I can trust Ben. He could be writing posts that read like town to conceal his true alignment. I'm not sure one way or the other, but it's a possibility.
Man that's hella WIFOM to be pulling out this early in the game, my head doesn't need that XD
Hard to say. Only thing I know for certain is that I'm town. I need more evidence before I can make a guess about the rest of ya.
Hmm, these two quotes from Godot make me pause. Individually this might be nothing, but together it really seems like he's trying to get inside our heads. Emphasizing one's Town alignment just for the heck of it, when there's no pressure on them, can sound like someone's way too eager and/or desperate to make sure people aren't questioning their motives.
If you had to pick one person as scum right now, even on gut instinct or a wild guess, who would it be?
Possibly Biohazard. If not because her theme is the most menacing out of the lot, then because actively communing and encouraging such right away is intéressant. 👀
What's your opinion on people who are active and engaged? Could you explain for me why you think that's a scum tell?
 

Mystical

Dragon Spirit
Rainbow Rocket Grunt
Cult Classic
Join Date
Nov 2, 2018
Posts
901
Gender
Female
I've also got some questions.

Do you read other Mafia games while playing?

Do you want to lynch on D1?
  1. No, unless there's something specific I remember and it's relevant to the current game. Otherwise, I'd rather not. First, because it takes away my focus from the game I'm playing at the moment, and secondly because every game is different.
  2. If there's one thing I learned from the last game I played is that lynching randomly doesn't help.
Gathering information is important, I agree with Victoria (Biohazard) on that. But lynching just for the sake of lynching is not a good idea. Information can be gathered in other ways. Though I don't mean to just rely on night actions, either.

Basically, I won't lynch D1 unless something big comes up. (Note that I'm advocating for acting with purpose, asking questions and pressuring where needed. Not on passivity.)

nothing happened to me last night

To answer Lycoris's questions:
  1. I have read several old mafia games before, yes, but I don't typically do it while playing. If I'm going to read anything I would keep re-reading the current game for clues, and the hosts don't really like us focusing on old meta anyway.
  2. If this were a game that started on a Night phase I would definitely want to lynch, but since this is a "day 0" of sorts I think it's less important. Plus, beginning with only two scum out of 11 players total, the odds of a mislynch are very high. We shall see.
I would like to add a couple questions of my own:
--How much Mafia experience do you have?
--If you had to pick one person as scum right now, even on gut instinct or a wild guess, who would it be?

My answers:
--This is around my sixth forum mafia game, and I've played a couple times irl at parties too.
--I would say LuluRina. I get it, she's most likely new and that's fine, but she has not contributed one single word outside of answering Lycoris's questions, and even those don't help to generate discussion that would get us the sort of info required for lynching.
Can you clarify what you mean with "less important"? So just because there have been no night actions there's no point in lynching?

I agree with what you said about the odds being against us, but mafia is not just about math.


I honestly forget, but at least five. I'm not an expert, but I know my way around.

You.

I find it interesting that you picked a new player, and that you base your answer on early contributions. You said we could answer randomly or based on gut feeling, but your answer seems like neither. Besides, there were other people who hadn't even posted once (me included). 🤷

Do you read other Mafia games while playing?

Do you want to lynch on D1?
Generally I don't read other Mafia games. I don't want to rando lynch on day one, it's a bad idea the chances of getting a member of the town killed is extremely high.
I have relatively little experience with Mafia, tried it a few times though. More familiar with Werewolf, which is almost the same thing.
Wild guess says Biohazard, if only for wanting to lynch on day one.
I don't think wanting to lynch on day one is a scum tell. Rather, I'd be more weary on the way someone comes to the decision to lynch or to not lynch. Lynching randomly is bad, yes, but that doesn't mean lynching at all is bad. If someone is acting suspicious and we decide to lynch them, would you still be against it?

For your questions, Typhlosion...

How much Mafia experience do you have?
This is my third game total online, and it’s my second game on Marriland/Azurilland. I’ve played Mafia/Werewolf a few times in real life, too.

If you had to pick one person as scum right now, even on gut instinct or a wild guess, who would it be?

Hmm...I was going to say LuluRina, but she seems to be contributing a little more now. On a wild guess, I’d say Foolhard, and honestly that guess is mostly based on the fact that I’ve never seen them or talked to them before on the forums. It’s nothing personal!

I’m curious about what y’all think the Town Power Roles (TPRs) are this time around. Nobody has even mentioned the fact that we got an alignment list and a role list this time around. I provided some of my thoughts earlier, but to reiterate, I think we have Sheriff or Doctor, or possibly Weak Doctor.
I would hope we've at least got a jailer.
I think speculating on a role list is not important right now. Actually, I'd recommend to not do it, because it won't help town at the moment. I recommend to save that for later, when we at least have more information.

Also, I recommend to try to focus more on the content on people's posts rather than just the amount.
 

Typhlosion

Tempered Steel
Moderator
Rainbow Rocket Executive
Cult Classic
League Champion
Join Date
Oct 23, 2018
Posts
1,573
Location
Olivine City
AKA
Ben, A_T
Gender
Male
Time Zone
US Central (GMT -6:00)
3DS FC
2724-0144-2557
IGN
Ben
Hah, I still forgot to answer Stardust's roles question, whoops.

Six of the roles are confirmed for us: 4 Citizens, 1 Serial Killer, 1 Cult Leader. No need to worry about them. I've already said that I don't think Varhii would put any "hidden" Citizens in with the other five roles, just because...why. So let's look at the power roles.

  1. Doctor/Weak Doctor -- One thing to think about is that there's only one evil killing faction in this game, which at least in my experience is a bit strange. There's a chance Varhii wouldn't give us any healing roles at all, actually, if we only have to deal with one potential kill a night. I suppose there could be a Vig taking shots too, but in a game this compressed, I certainly can't see us having both a "strong" Doc and Weak Doc.
  2. Sheriff/Deputy -- No reason why we couldn't have a Sheriff. However, a deputy is absolutely useless without a Sheriff as well, and I don't think we'd have 40% of our power roles tied up to use both. Sheriff maybe, deputy no.
  3. Bodyguard -- Since there is only one killing scum faction, playing this right could automatically make it nothing but town vs cult. From a game balance faction, I don't believe there would be a Bodyguard at all unless there is also a Vig.
  4. Tracker/Watcher -- Hard to say with these. Since they're both informative roles that kind of function as inverses of each other, again I doubt we have both of these roles.
  5. Jailor -- A possibility. Could be nice for rooting out Cult.
  6. Commuter/Dancer/Bus Driver -- Who knows tbh.
  7. Gunsmith/Mayor -- I don't know whether or not Varhii rearranged the game balance after seeing the final number of players. If he did, which is likely, I doubt we would have either one of these. Three votes or extra kills in a game with only 11 players seems like way too much game-swinging power.
  8. Vigilante -- ahh no please not this anything but this not again For some reason I feel like there's a good chance we do have one of these in the game. It would make things very interesting if they get pulled into the cult. @Varhii does your game have the rule about a vigilante guilt-suiciding? How would that work if they get culted?
  9. Mason Leader -- Hmm, my gut says we have one of these too. In a game this heavily revolving around a cult, it would be a nice anti-cult balancer.
 

Mystical

Dragon Spirit
Rainbow Rocket Grunt
Cult Classic
Join Date
Nov 2, 2018
Posts
901
Gender
Female
--How much Mafia experience do you have?
I meant five forum games, by the way. But actually I've only really played four, all on Azurilland. I played one outside of Marriland/Azurilland, but this other one didn't go very far due to inactivity and I was killed on the first day. I've played some games on town of Salem, too, for what it's worth, and I've followed a few other games on Marriland.

Seriously though, there's no need to speculate on roles right now, and I'm weary of why some people feel the need to. This helps cult leader more than us right now.
 

Varhii

Shaggy Webber
Rainbow Rocket Grunt
People of Play
Join Date
Nov 1, 2018
Posts
1,353
AKA
SG
Gender
Male
Time Zone
EST
Top