Knocking on Heaven's Gate - A Mafia-Less Mafia Game - OVER - Cult Wins

What should I do with this game if we don't get any more people?

  • Shut It Down

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Transform It Into Standard

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • I Don't Care

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Master Magics Five

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i think that it's surprising how much everyone else is putting into this

i generally wait for the ball to get rolling before i actually pay attention to who seems suspicious

as for my guess i p much just tried to justify it because that's what i do for myself
 

SAF

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If we wait until D2 to lynch and the cult leader successfully recruits, with a ratio of 8:2:1 town:cult:sk the odds are still much better of us hitting Town, and at that point the numbers are already beginning their shift toward cult's favor.
That's assuming the serial killer doesn't kill anyone, right?
 

Luke Strife

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Posted too fast.

I meant to add that's also assuming that the Cult succeeds in recruiting. If the recruit lands on the SK or Masons (presuming that they are in the game for the sake of Town-protection), then it'll fail.
 

SAF

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Awkay. In that case, I gonna /Vote Skip for now. Still can't determine who's what, y'see. :hmmazurill:
 

Godot

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Yeah, I second /vote skip. To early to tell and we risk screwing ourselves over if we vote up anyone.
 

Mystical

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Don't vote skip, we still have time :thonkazurill:
Actually, you should never vote skip. Unless all the roles are known and the outcome only depends on night actions.

Also, you said you were going to make a list with quotes, Saf? Even if you don't do it for everyone, you can still do it for quotes that catch your interest.

This goes for everyone else who doesn't know what else to do. And you too, Godot. Even if you don't write a lot, just pointing out short impressions is enough. Like how you comment on the movies/series you've watched.

All right, I'll leave this here for reference.
-
Citizen
Has no night action.
This doesn't mean they can't look back at the thread for hints and speculation. Things that catch their attention. Anything helps.

Doctor
Can choose a person each night. If that person was also targeted by a killing night action, they will survive and get the message of attacked and healed.
They should pick someone they think may get attacked. Obvs.

Weak Doctor
Can choose a person each night. If that person was also targeted by a killing night action, they will survive and get the message of attacked and healed. If they choose a person that is not town, they die.
Same as doctor. For now, only two people Will kill you so there's not that much risk.

Sheriff
Can choose a person each night to investigate. They will be notified of that person's faction.
Since there's no mafia, their results can't be tampered with. (No framer).

Deputy
Upon the sheriff dying, turns into a Sheriff. Has no purpose otherwise.
Until the sheriff dies, they act as citizens.

Bodyguard
Can choose to protect someone. If that person was also targeted by a killing night action, both the bodyguard and the person killing will die.
If they die protecting someone, the town will always remember it. Same tip as doctor.

Tracker
Can track a person each night. This will reveal who the target visited.
They should track someone they think may be suspicious.

Watcher
Can watch a person each night. This will reveal who the target was visited by.
Same tip as doctor. They should watch someone they think may be in danger either of being killed or of being culted.

Jailer
Can hold someone in jail overnight. This person becomes immune to night actions and cannot perform one. The jailer enters a night chat with this person under an anonymous account. They can chose whether or not to execute (kill) the person in jail before the night ends.
Should ask for the role of the person they jailed, and any night actions they performed. At least on this first night, jailers can trusted implicitly. If they get culted that's bad news.

Commuter
Can choose to leave town and avoid all night actions. Cannot do this two nights in a row. They should leave town if they think they may be in danger.

Gunsmith
Can make a gun for someone during the night. Cannot do this two nights in a row. These guns can be shot at any time.
Should be careful of who they give a gun to.

Vigilante
Has two shots that they can fire at night to kill someone.
Should shoot only if they have a strong feeling or evidence that someone is suspicious.

Dancer
Can keep someone from performing their night action.
They're a good way to find SK or to stop cult leader from culting. Their roleblocks shouldn't fail unless their target was jailed or they left town (commuter).

Mason Leader
Can recruit Citizens to the masonry. These people share a night chat and cannot be recruited by the Cult Leader.
Should try to recruit people they feel are town. Also, since they can recruit before cult leader, they have an advantage there. Of course they may not always find a citizen, but shouldn't try to recruit TPRs.

Mayor
Can choose to reveal themselves at any time. Once they do, their vote counts as 3.
Should only reveal if they think it's important or if they may be under pressure.

Bus Driver
Can choose two people each night. Night actions will be swapped targets between the two people.
Can try to confuse opposing forces by swapping. They can swap strategically (not randomly)
 
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Godot

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I'd compare this to Gen 8 speculation, actually. Something I haven't really posted about and when I do, it's not long winded because writing a long post about it feels pointless.

I don't see what I can add here. Most of the games I've played start on a night phase, which is to say every single time I've played Werewolf. I'm out of my element.
 

Godot

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Honestly I don't really care at this point in time. And I'm sure as hell not going to pretend to care, because that's a waste of time. Pure speculation gets us nowhere, and actually voting anyone up is far more likely to set us back than actually help.
 

Vivid Stardust

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i think that it's surprising how much everyone else is putting into this

i generally wait for the ball to get rolling before i actually pay attention to who seems suspicious

as for my guess i p much just tried to justify it because that's what i do for myself
I think it’s better to keep track of who’s suspicious right away, or at least notice how different people are acting. Day one stuff may seem worthless, but there’s some patterns I’m personally noticing for different people, and that’s not something you should wait to focus on.

Honestly I don't really care at this point in time. And I'm sure as hell not going to pretend to care, because that's a waste of time. Pure speculation gets us nowhere, and actually voting anyone up is far more likely to set us back than actually help.
Actually, I think this discussion is important. We need to get as much discussion out on day one as possible so we can have a starting point on day two. Guessing who’s town and who’s not, what roles we have, and deciding on a lynch is all useful in one way or another for town. Even if it’s just pure speculation, everyone in town has a 1/5 chance of correctly figuring out the scum players on the first day because we know our own roles, we just need to figure out everyone else. (CL and SK have a 1/10 chance of figuring out the other scum player day one.)

I think we should assume that the Serial Killer will kill every night, and if there isn’t a kill, something’s up. Like Luke said earlier, if we no lynch today, that’ll mean that we have either 7:2:1 (if CL and SK both hit town), 8:1:1 (if SK hits Cult or Cult attempts to recruit the Masons or SK), or 9:1:1 (if Cult recruits SK or Masons and the SK’s target gets healed).

I’m not ready to do a full reads list yet, but I will say this: I’m willing to bet Mystical/Isa is town, and probably a TPR. If she was Cult Leader, and genuinely thought that role discussion would benefit the Cult rather than town, she would have encouraged discussion regarding role possibilities, and she would not have called me out for being so interested in the roles list. With post #87, she seems to be trying to help town, and trying to get everyone in town to cooperate. She’s also against no lynching today. While this is a bit of a meta argument, last game, Curry was adamant about lynching day one, and not only did he turn out to be right about multiple things, he also turned out to be town. While I definitely understand why everyone doesn’t want to lynch today, I do think that Isa’s trying to help town by pushing for a lynch, even if that lynch might result in a town death. (The same applies to Lycoris/Biohazard.) I think someone should try to protect her tonight, since she’s definitely putting a target on her back.
 

Biohazard

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Since D1 is ending soon and I want to vote this day, I'm going to elaborate who is scum and why.

I'm going to vote for Foolhard. Why? His reasoning for his guess is pretty bad. He said that he tried to justify because that's what he does for himself. It's just empty. Another suspicious thing about him is that he didn't really posted that much and been avoiding questions from others about his thoughts on the game until today. His answer in general doesn't sound good either.

/Vote Foolhard
 

Vivid Stardust

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Honestly, I agree with everything you said, Lycoris. I know there’s other people who have had very minimalistic posts (eg, SAF), but Foolhard has posted twice, and both posts feel off. He hasn’t been answering questions or participating in discussion, and he hasn’t tried to justify his actions either. I also think it’s a little anti-town to not even start thinking about suspicions until later in the game.

This is probably going to be taken as sheeping/bandwagoning, but I’m going to /Vote Foolhard as well.

If you want to defend yourself, @Foolhard, I strongly recommend you do it now. While there are only three votes on you (Typhlosion, Biohazard, and myself), three others might join in. I’m willing to take my vote off if you explain yourself, but until then, this vote stays.
 

Mystical

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My thing with Foolhard is that he seems to have the attitude of not taking things seriously because it's only day one (with no nights). Don't think that's a definite scumtell, but it's not helping town either. I would propose leaving him for the time being but keeping an eye on him on day 2. Same with Godot.

@Typhlosion what do you think? Does it warrant a lynch, in your opinion?

@Godot fair enough. I appreciate your honesty, and I think that's the straightest you've been up to now. Hope to see more from you this next day, though.
 

Typhlosion

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@Varhii What's the policy on pinging other players? I suppose that's allowed, since several people have done it w/o consequences?
I'm still not saying a Day 1 lynch has to happen, but I'm not a fan of this mentality for justifying a lack of action. Ideally, Mafia is supposed to be exactly about "narrowing down who those might be at this point with only their words." Night actions are a fun helpful bonus, but even with that, they're hardly guaranteed to give us conclusive evidence about who to lynch. If we wait until D2 to lynch and the cult leader successfully recruits, with a ratio of 8:2:1 town:cult:sk the odds are still much better of us hitting Town, and at that point the numbers are already beginning their shift toward cult's favor. We can't rely on waiting for someone to drop themselves in it.
This is hardly a normal mafia game. "Lack of action" is not a problem here, as the alternative is actively harming the Town. Yes, the cult will gain an advantage, but lynching a townie would tip the sclaes even more in favour of the Cult. I'm not saying that night actions will give us conclusive evidence, but they will give us something more to go on than just shooting at random, like it would be if we lynched now.
Yes, a mafia game without mafia is not a "normal mafia game" but the same concepts apply to any mafia game. How is lack of action not a problem? Approximately 1/3 of our players are doing jack squat. You're saying the alternative, harms the Town? How is that?
I agree that "shooting at random" wouldn't be a good thing, but the point is we shouldn't be. Using what limited knowledge we have to draw the best conclusions we can is the essence of Mafia. We have a total of 5 TPRs, two or three of which are likely to be protection. That leaves a total of, let's be generous and say 4 investigative roles. What are the odds that in one night someone uses their role to learn something conclusive? Not great. Even then, we have the issue of claims and counterclaims and whether or not we can trust the information being fed to us. That's where activity in the day phase is beneficial, for if/when we need to decide whom to trust.
i think that it's surprising how much everyone else is putting into this

i generally wait for the ball to get rolling before i actually pay attention to who seems suspicious

as for my guess i p much just tried to justify it because that's what i do for myself
Really? You're just going to show up, spit out what amounts to three separate one-liners, not answer any of the concerns/questions directed against you, and practically admit you're not even playing the game? No. Not going to fly; my vote stays where it is.
If we wait until D2 to lynch and the cult leader successfully recruits, with a ratio of 8:2:1 town:cult:sk the odds are still much better of us hitting Town, and at that point the numbers are already beginning their shift toward cult's favor.
That's assuming the serial killer doesn't kill anyone, right?
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Good point, SAF.
-snip-
I’m not ready to do a full reads list yet, but I will say this: I’m willing to bet Mystical/Isa is town, and probably a TPR. If she was Cult Leader, and genuinely thought that role discussion would benefit the Cult rather than town, she would have encouraged discussion regarding role possibilities, and she would not have called me out for being so interested in the roles list. With post #87, she seems to be trying to help town, and trying to get everyone in town to cooperate. She’s also against no lynching today. While this is a bit of a meta argument, last game, Curry was adamant about lynching day one, and not only did he turn out to be right about multiple things, he also turned out to be town. While I definitely understand why everyone doesn’t want to lynch today, I do think that Isa’s trying to help town by pushing for a lynch, even if that lynch might result in a town death. (The same applies to Lycoris/Biohazard.) I think someone should try to protect her tonight, since she’s definitely putting a target on her back.[/COLOR]
I like a bunch of what you said in this post, but I do want to point out that the last line bugs me. Unless the game has progressed long enough that people are sure of a few alignments and roles and are to the point of just weeding out who's left (as happened in Vengeance of the Six mafia back on AZ) trying to coordinate night actions during the day simply doesn't work well. The two scum roles can play around this just as easily as we can try to play around them.

To Isa, I think I mostly answered your question above. If enough people want to lynch today I would want it to be Foolhard, but I'm okay if we aren't sure enough to get it done. Really, more than lynching him, I want Foolhard to actually show up and play the bloody game, so we can reach a more informed conclusion on whether or not to lynch him. Assuming we both survive, though, at this point I can say 100% he'll be my primary target on Day 2.
 

Typhlosion

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Whoops, I messed up the formatting again. Heck.

I’m not ready to do a full reads list yet, but I will say this: I’m willing to bet Mystical/Isa is town, and probably a TPR. If she was Cult Leader, and genuinely thought that role discussion would benefit the Cult rather than town, she would have encouraged discussion regarding role possibilities, and she would not have called me out for being so interested in the roles list. With post #87, she seems to be trying to help town, and trying to get everyone in town to cooperate. She’s also against no lynching today. While this is a bit of a meta argument, last game, Curry was adamant about lynching day one, and not only did he turn out to be right about multiple things, he also turned out to be town. While I definitely understand why everyone doesn’t want to lynch today, I do think that Isa’s trying to help town by pushing for a lynch, even if that lynch might result in a town death. (The same applies to Lycoris/Biohazard.) I think someone should try to protect her tonight, since she’s definitely putting a target on her back.[/COLOR]
I like a bunch of what you said in this post, but I do want to point out that the last line bugs me. Unless the game has progressed long enough that people are sure of a few alignments and roles and are to the point of just weeding out who's left (as happened in Vengeance of the Six mafia back on AZ) trying to coordinate night actions during the day simply doesn't work well. The two scum roles can play around this just as easily as we can try to play around them.

To Isa, I think I mostly answered your question above. If enough people want to lynch today I would want it to be Foolhard, but I'm okay if we aren't sure enough to get it done. Really, more than lynching him, I want Foolhard to actually show up and play the bloody game, so we can reach a more informed conclusion on whether or not to lynch him. Assuming we both survive, though, at this point I can say 100% he'll be my primary target on Day 2.
 

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i think that it's surprising how much everyone else is putting into this

i generally wait for the ball to get rolling before i actually pay attention to who seems suspicious

as for my guess i p much just tried to justify it because that's what i do for myself
Wait, thats it? Theres a vote on you, and you just make a short post saying you'd rather get the ball rolling?

Ya know what? I'm going to /Vote Foolhard

Why? His activity has been lacking and he only made a couple of small posts without much info.
Plus, while my answer to the question was that we don't have much info on d1 without n0, I know that the ball starts rolling when the game starts, no matter if there is a n0 or not.

Also idc if this seems like bandwagoning he's the most suspicious of the lot.
 

Varhii

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@Typhlosion It's allowed.

6 Votes to Lynch:
Foolhard - 4/6: Typhlosion, Biohazard, Vivid Stardust, LuluRina
 

Godot

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I will say I agree that his "until the ball starts rolling defense" doesn't work because the game's begun and the ball is by definition already rolling. And while it will certainly gain momentum, either positive or negative, after a night phase we don't have the luxury of waiting. Given that we have to speculate, regrettably, I will concede to the other four. /vote Foolhard. We need information, although this might be risky.
 

Typhlosion

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@Godot Even if four other people have gone before you, your conclusions and actions can still be your own. There's no call for conceding to anyone. Also, I don't know how picky Varhii will be about this, but for the record votes usually have to be bolded to count.

Anyway, counting Godot we only have one more vote for a majority, and approximately 4 hours left in the day by my count. This is essentially the last chance to weigh the events of the day and vote or not vote as you see fit. I said that a D1 lynch was not a must for me, but with how the Day has gone I'm still willing to stick by a lynch on Foolhard.
 

SAF

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sigh
Guess I gonna /Unvote then. And since it looks like most of us see Foolhard as the suspicious one, I've got no choice but to /Vote Foolhard here. :pensiveazurill:
 
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