Knocking on Heaven's Gate - A Mafia-Less Mafia Game - OVER - Cult Wins

What should I do with this game if we don't get any more people?

  • Shut It Down

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Transform It Into Standard

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • I Don't Care

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Godot

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Fair warning, I'll be hanging out with a friend this afternoon so if anyone has questions for me between noon and five pm (my time) specifically ping me so I don't miss them.
 

Moonwatcher

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Well isn't this just great. This is why I didn't want a day 1 lynch. You went and Lynched a TPR without even giving him a chance to claim or defend himself. Good going.

Ok, one thing to keep in mind is that most likely, CL recruited someone last night. Probably someone active, so they can sway the votes easier, but not so much so that they are a likely SK target. I'm gonna say that Typholsion and Mystical seem too high profile as targets, and Lulu SAF and Godot more likely to be Lynched, leaving Luke Strife, Vivid Stardust, Biohazard, Felly and Myself as most likely potential Cult.

@SAF, you are saying exactly the wrong things. Don't try to persuade people by saying you aren't -insert role here-, prove it with good believable reasoning for your actions. And whatever you do, do not bandwagon without good justification.

Oh, and nothing happened to me last night.
I agree with most of your post. The bolded line, however, reaaaally grinds my gears. Someone who had two mafia posts in the entirety of the 72-hour day phase has absolutely NO right to complain or criticize the way the game is going. If you don't like it your butt should have been here. And if you've been reading back and understanding the game here at all, you'll know the reason we lynched Foolhard is because we gave him MULTIPLE opportunities to claim and/or defend himself, and he didn't. So yeah, I expect to see a hell of a lot more out of you today.
Aside from your vote, the next vote on Foolhard was Wednesday at 7:32 PM Foolhards previous post was at 11:07 AM the same day. The locking in was Thursday at 12:53 AM, giving Foolhard 5 hours in which to defend himself. I hardly find that plenty of time or "Multiple opportunities" to defend himself.
I did not post much, as I have little to say. I posted all my relevent thoughts, then waited for people's responce. But as I said, there having been no night yet, there was practically nothing to go with. No-one said anything that added to my suspicions of them, so I had nothing to say. Would you prefer I post many empty posts and distract everyone with my meaningless rambling?
I'm not allowed to be annoyed that other people don't follow the same standard/belief in what the best tactic is? And yet that's exactly what you are doing to me.
 

Mystical

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If you had to pick one person as scum right now, even on gut instinct or a wild guess, who would it be?
Mmmm, I'd have to go with Foolhard because he seemed like he was going after Biohazard for encouraging discussion, which I feel like is super important in this game overall. I know some people may want to lay low early on and let others take charge in the beginning to see how people react, but regardless, discussion is still important because without it, we can't figure out who's who in this game.
Hmm, I think this might be worth pursuing. Foolhard has made one post so far this game, to answer my questions, but didn't answer the ones from Lycoris. I also asked him to explain his reasoning (post #55) and we haven't heard anything back. Let's crank up the pressure on this guy. /vote Foolhard
Note that at first this was only a pressure vote.

Since D1 is ending soon and I want to vote this day, I'm going to elaborate who is scum and why.

I'm going to vote for Foolhard. Why? His reasoning for his guess is pretty bad. He said that he tried to justify because that's what he does for himself. It's just empty. Another suspicious thing about him is that he didn't really posted that much and been avoiding questions from others about his thoughts on the game until today. His answer in general doesn't sound good either.

/Vote Foolhard
I like that she takes responsability of the vote and I understand why she wants to lynch, since that's the mentality on Mafia Universe.

Honestly, I agree with everything you said, Lycoris. I know there’s other people who have had very minimalistic posts (eg, SAF), but Foolhard has posted twice, and both posts feel off. He hasn’t been answering questions or participating in discussion, and he hasn’t tried to justify his actions either. I also think it’s a little anti-town to not even start thinking about suspicions until later in the game.

This is probably going to be taken as sheeping/bandwagoning, but I’m going to /Vote Foolhard as well.

If you want to defend yourself, Foolhard, I strongly recommend you do it now. While there are only three votes on you (Typhlosion, Biohazard, and myself), three others might join in. I’m willing to take my vote off if you explain yourself, but until then, this vote stays.
How did the posts feel off? Vivid never specified. Plus, they pointed SAF out, but still tunneled on Foolhard.

My thing with Foolhard is that he seems to have the attitude of not taking things seriously because it's only day one (with no nights). Don't think that's a definite scumtell, but it's not helping town either. I would propose leaving him for the time being but keeping an eye on him on day 2. Same with Godot.
Nothing real to say here. While I was unsure of a lynch, I didn't really try to stop it either.

Really? You're just going to show up, spit out what amounts to three separate one-liners, not answer any of the concerns/questions directed against you, and practically admit you're not even playing the game? No. Not going to fly; my vote stays where it is.
Now ir turned into a lynch vote. I wish people hadn't tunneled as hard but I understand the reasoning behind it.

Wait, thats it? Theres a vote on you, and you just make a short post saying you'd rather get the ball rolling?

Ya know what? I'm going to /Vote Foolhard

Why? His activity has been lacking and he only made a couple of small posts without much info.
Plus, while my answer to the question was that we don't have much info on d1 without n0, I know that the ball starts rolling when the game starts, no matter if there is a n0 or not.

Also idc if this seems like bandwagoning he's the most suspicious of the lot.
Hmm it does seem a bit like bandwagonning, but at the same time, she's taking responsability of it.
I will say I agree that his "until the ball starts rolling defense" doesn't work because the game's begun and the ball is by definition already rolling. And while it will certainly gain momentum, either positive or negative, after a night phase we don't have the luxury of waiting. Given that we have to speculate, regrettably, I will concede to the other four. /vote Foolhard. We need information, although this might be risky.
I think Vivid called this out already, but as with SAF, you're never obligated to follow anyone. Why the change of opinion? Since at the beginning you were saying you preferred not to lynch. Why did you feel it was urgent? If you regretted doing so, why Lynch regardless?

sigh
Guess I gonna /Unvote then. And since it looks like most of us see Foolhard as the suspicious one, I've got no choice but to /Vote Foolhard here. :pensiveazurill:
I already explained what I think is off about this post, but what makes it different from other 'bandwagon' posts (like Godot and Lulu) she's not taking responsability of her actions and she's being passive about it. She even admits she wanted to bandwagon...

@SAF since this is your first game, I may take my vote away depending on how you contribute today, but please, think about what we're saying here. Bandwagoning just for the sake of it is not good, and it's something scum does. I'm sure if you've read other games, you can see how this is very frowned on.

Anyway, next.

but I do think the way SAF's tagging on should be noted
It has.

By the way, even though I voted for SAF, you all should look at other people and not just at her. I think we agree she's been acting wishy washy, so we can keep that in mind and continue with other things, too.

@Moonwatcher the thing is, it seems unfair to say "I told you so" when you didn't really do much to try to stop it. What's done is done. We should keep looking at other evidence since the game is not over yet.

Also, Felly, I'm keeping your post about why Godot could have been shot in mind, just so you know I'm not ignoring you. Same thing with Godot's impressions.
 

Moonwatcher

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@Moonwatcher the thing is, it seems unfair to say "I told you so" when you didn't really do much to try to stop it. What's done is done. We should keep looking at other evidence since the game is not over yet.
I was asleep by the time the second vote was placed, and the lynch was locked by the time I woke up, otherwise I would have said my part at the time. But yeah, I can kinda see where you're coming from. I shouldn't have said that. It was unfair, and I apologise.
 

Godot

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I had voted for Foolhard thinking that we wouldn't get the number required to lynch and honestly at the time I'd hoped we wouldn't if only to get a few more answers. While I had wanted to take the high road in my very first post, unfortunately I (even if I didn't post it) understood that voting someone up is a way to gain information. By the time the vote was locked, I'd already given in to the sunk cost fallacy. And perhaps it was bandwagoning, I'm sorry. Mob mentality got the best of me.
 

Mystical

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I don't know what does and doesn't read like town. I'll probably have impressions based on Day 2 stuff if I survive the night. For now I'm not seeing enough to base anything off of and what is there to judge could just be personality at the moment.
Although we can't base ourselves only from it, town normally tries to be helpful and progress the game. Scum tries to distract and waste time.

A weird thought just popped into my head, maybe SAF got culted last night and now she wants to be lynched because she's confused about how to play or has some conflicted loyalty thing going on. But that might count as throwing the game, hmm.
I doubt it. She's been playing like this since day one, it's just that no one else really pointed it out. She tried to skip day one, if you remember. And that's another thing town should never do, and if she has read other games, she'd know this, and yet she did it. Besides, if she was noticed for having bad day play I doubt a cult leader would cult her. Not impossible, just not very likely.

Oh right, I was going to post impressions of y'all. By which I mean short opinions of what I've seen from each of ya so far.
Isa, you definitely give off a town vibe having been rather patient with those of us who are newer. Biohazard you come across as neutral leaning town so far. Ben I'm not sure about but I don't feel like you're entirely untrustworthy. I'll post more opinions as I notice them, keep in mind this is all conjecture atm.
Yeah, I know not everyone plays the same way and some people don't have as much experience. I'm glad to be seen as town, and I do want to help everyone. Also, for what it's worth, I trust Ben.

@Moonwatcher fair enough. What's your timezone? Some people's timezones are awkward, and I understand. The votes did seem to snowball a lot, but sometimes the game does gain more activity during the last hours of the day. We definitely should try to be more careful, though.
 

Typhlosion

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Big fat wall of random stuff coming down. You have been warned.
@Moonwatcher the thing is, it seems unfair to say "I told you so" when you didn't really do much to try to stop it. What's done is done. We should keep looking at other evidence since the game is not over yet.
I was asleep by the time the second vote was placed, and the lynch was locked by the time I woke up, otherwise I would have said my part at the time. But yeah, I can kinda see where you're coming from. I shouldn't have said that. It was unfair, and I apologise.
I'd like to apologize for the situation as well. My frustration at lynching a TPR spiraled out of control a bit and I ended up taking it out in my post towards you.
- I'm going to lynch on D1. Why? Regardless of how many players show up, lynching is important because information is very important.
Okay, we had a lynch and you participated in it, as you said you would. What are your thoughts on any "very important" information we may have gotten out of lynching Foolhard?
Answering Typhlosion's questions.

How much Mafia experience do you have?

This is my 2nd mafia game on Marriland and I've played few games on Mafia Universe.

If you had to pick one person as scum right now, even on gut instinct or a wild guess, who would it be?

It is way too early to tell who is scum tbh. The game just started today and only few people posted in.
In the same vein, now we have a full Day/Night cycle behind us. Have you started to develop any reads on people? You haven't been super active this phase yet.
@Biohazard My guess is that we have at least one of Jailor/Gunsmith/Vigilante.
Hah, kind of amusing in hindsight. So now that it's been proven we did have a Gunsmith among the roles, what do you think about our odds of also having one or both of the other two?
I need more evidence before I can make a guess about the rest of ya.
In post #112 you mention that you'll probably have impressions for Day 2 stuff and in post #140 you talk about Isa, Biohazard, and me. I know you've been out some of the day and that's no problem, but have you had any more thoughts on some of the less prominent people? I noticed you've been poking at SAF a bit as well.
[*]Gunsmith/Mayor -- I don't know whether or not Varhii rearranged the game balance after seeing the final number of players. If he did, which is likely, I doubt we would have either one of these. Three votes or extra kills in a game with only 11 players seems like way too much game-swinging power.
I have been bamboozled O_o I guess all bets are off on whether we might have a Mayor as well.
I am focused on content for people’s posts, by the way. I know I was focused on the number of posts earlier, but as you said, quality is more important than quantity (although quantity can be important). I’ll probably post some sort of reads list with quotes either later on day one or near the beginning of day two, depending on how things go posting-wise.
Do you think there's a certain distinction to be made where quantity becomes as important as quality? What would you think about a player who didn't post at all in a phase but was known to be active elsewhere on the forums?
If you had to pick one person as scum right now, even on gut instinct or a wild guess, who would it be?
-Hard to say. From what I've seen, the most likely players to be viewed as Town tend to follow something like a bell-curve. The most talkative and the least talkative of the players always seem to be the most accused. Everyone is on edge at the moment, having accusations thrown at someone tends to put them on the defensive and hyper analyse what the accuser is saying. Food for thought.
You've only mentioned SAF so far in this phase. Honestly looks a lot like coaching, so fair warning that if SAF ends up flipping cult I'll be taking a closer look at you. Any more reads on people, maybe those who don't fall so much within your bell curve of controversy?
And I honestly don't know about Bio. Her posts I wouldn't say are scummy, yet I wouldn't place as a town read either
She's more like a neutral with a slight town lean.
Give me an example, please. From what she's posted what specifically sounds neutral with slight town? You can quité specific posts.
Well if you're looking for specific posts...
I've also got some questions.

Do you read other Mafia games while playing?

Do you want to lynch on D1?
@Typhlosion Even though I said that it is way too early, I'm going to do this and gonna take Moonwatcher as a wild guess. ¯\(ツ)

Regarding what you said about duplicate TPRs, I don't think there are any duplicate TPR roles and I believe that there are five unique ones. If there would be any duplicates, the game would be unbalanced.
Who do you think is town in the game?
These posts show her contributing to town, just not as much as Ben

@Vivid Stardust Going through the Azurilland is a pain. Since we're playing a cult game, I'm currently reading through a mafia game that has cult (on Azurilland), as I've never played that sort before.

Since people have answered the questions as well, here are my own answers.

- I read through other games very often. Reading helps me what I should to do in a mafia game and it's a habit that has improved me when it comes to playing mafia.

- I'm going to lynch on D1. Why? Regardless of how many players show up, lynching is important because information is very important.
Answering Typhlosion's questions.

How much Mafia experience do you have?

This is my 2nd mafia game on Marriland and I've played few games on Mafia Universe.

If you had to pick one person as scum right now, even on gut instinct or a wild guess, who would it be?

It is way too early to tell who is scum tbh. The game just started today and only few people posted in.
Her answers to these questions, while mine of the first two questions are the opposite of hers, are something that I understand perfectly. Also I like how she didn't want to list anyone as scum since it was too early to tell.

The reason why I don't want her to be on my trs at the moment are because, while she has some good posts and is the one who posted the most, her posts have been short and, honestly, most of the time she's just been asking questions. I'm not saying its a bad thing, just that I don't see any substance in those.

...welp now I have two trs and ironically its the two people who questioned me about my decisions xD
So from what I understand of this, you're still pretty neutral about Biohazard. Any updates there?
She’s also against no lynching today. While this is a bit of a meta argument, last game, Curry was adamant about lynching day one, and not only did he turn out to be right about multiple things, he also turned out to be town. While I definitely understand why everyone doesn’t want to lynch today, I do think that Isa’s trying to help town by pushing for a lynch, even if that lynch might result in a town death. (The same applies to Lycoris/Biohazard.) I think someone should try to protect her tonight, since she’s definitely putting a target on her back.
Does this townread of Isa because she was pro-lynch apply exclusively to her in this situation, or is it your opinion that pushing for a D1 lynch is a town tell in general?
My thing with Foolhard is that he seems to have the attitude of not taking things seriously because it's only day one (with no nights). Don't think that's a definite scumtell, but it's not helping town either. I would propose leaving him for the time being but keeping an eye on him on day 2. Same with Godot.
The way I see it, SAF is doing more or less the same thing now, as far as "not taking things seriously" is concerned. However, it's now Day 2, and we have a night behind us. It wasn't a scumtell for Foolhard, and I know you've already got a vote on SAF, but would you say this is even more of a reason to pressure her?
but I do think the way SAF's tagging on should be noted.
Given how he played overall, there's a very good chance this is just him repackaging what he saw others say. However, now that he's confirmed town I suppose it's at least worth a mention.
@Vivid Stardust I kinda have the same curiosity as Typhlosion regarding to the scumtell, but none of Foolhard's posts answer that, so...
At this point we probably don't need to pile any more on top of SAF, but at the same time I don't want to let this slip away. Could be genuine, could be another instance of her hiding behind other players and coasting.
Sorry about that, @Mystical @Felly. I just kinda felt the urge to bandwagon but couldn't find a good way to justify it. :pensiveazurill:
Don't take this as pressure, SAF; I'm honestly curious about your choice of words here. Bandwagoning really isn't something one feels the "urge" to do. If there's already a vote train going, and you agree with their reasoning, you should be able to explain your own thought process as to how you came to the conclusion that that person would be a good lynch candidate. If you genuinely threw a vote onto Foolhard just because you saw other people doing it and couldn't justify it yourself, that's a very dangerous mindset.

So, even with all that, I don't yet have specific reads or potential lynch candidates figured out. That's next on my list.
 

Mystical

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I feel the difference is attitude. Foolhard was just chilling because it was day 0. It sounded like he was genuinely surprised of the amount of votes against him. SAF isn't chilling; she's just playing passive victim. It's like she's doing everything one shouldn't do as town. But both do share the apathy, that's true. I think I told her how she can help, but if she doesn't change her attitude, my vote will stay. It may or may not become a lynch, though. That's up to others as well.

It does get frustrating when people play this way, no matter what faction they are in. I get people may be new to the game, but it ruins it a bit when people don't even want to try. Sigh oh well, I know it's just a game, though. Nothing personal against anyone.
 

Godot

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"Poking" More of an observation, really. I'm not going to go voting SAF up unless something actually suspicious sticks out to me. Just pointed it out because I thought it could be phrased a little better. As you said, the word choice is strange and that's about it, not suspicious just odd. I learned my lesson from the Foolhard incident. As for why I listed reads on you three first, Ben, is because of the participants I've interacted with the three of you the most outside of this and felt the most comfortable addressing the three of you before anyone else.

Word choice aside, SAF has been getting hit from all angles. It's easy to accuse SAF of coasting, but I think it's more that she's relatively new to this and needs to be given an amount of leeway. As it currently stands, I don't feel as if SAF is suspicious but rather neutral.

Moon seems alright from what little I've seen from him, pulling out the quotes and checking statements he wasn't present for to present his point. Hindsight is twenty-twenty so there's a chance I believe him to be innocent simply due to what he's pulling from previous conversations.

I'm honestly not sure about Luke. He's at least offering SAF advice which, operating under the assumption that others are jumping to conclusions about SAF a little too early, could just be politely assisting another player. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. That said, I do agree it's a little odd that he's only directly mentioned SAF up to now.

Lulu seems alright. She's been active and questioning. A little quick to jump on SAF but I'm in the same boat on that one. Probably town, if I had to take a wild guess. Not quite sure.

Vivid has been helpful in several ways summing things up sufficiently, questioning other players, and trying to help others understand the game. I'd lump him in with you, Ben. I don't know whether or not he's trustworthy but I'm slightly more willing to air on the side of trust than not.

And Felly was the first to question SAF. And at least so far has gone back and drudged up conversation from day one to attempt to figure out who had a motive to attack me. Although I think it's worth agreeing with her that I did out myself as town. Which probably painted this target on my back. Possible town, from what I can tell. Also owned up to bandwagoning, which honestly I wish I'd admitted to sooner than I did. So I trust her.

I'm not going to say who I think are cult or SK, primarily because I've got a big enough target emblazoned on my back as it is.
 

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So from what I understand of this, you're still pretty neutral about Biohazard. Any updates there?
She has a lot more of a town lean since she is actively promoting discussion and has good answers to questions, however she still is in the neutral because most of her posts were short not really a proper excuse but I just have a feeling...

And also I'm not gonna place my vote on SAF just yet. While she has this deftest attitude... she's kinda acting how I acted when I first started playing mafia games tbh. So she's in the true neutral for me.
SAF, be glad you have people to tell you what to do and what to not do because with the places I started playing mafia on no one told me not to do those things. I had to figure it out myself xD

I'll put up the rest of my reads later while I re-read everyone's posts :)
 

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I forgot that multiquote is a thing on forums, and whew, does it save the need for pen and paper. xD Forgive me if my quoting is a little messy; normally I'd go back and edit, but I can't do that here.

Also, I'll do a post on my reads later, after I get home from work at some point but before I go to bed tomorrow night. I'd do it tonight, but I need to get up early to take my mom to work and I also work tomorrow, and I wanted to at least reply to quotes I noticed throughout the day before I went to bed tonight.

A weird thought just popped into my head, maybe SAF got culted last night and now she wants to be lynched because she's confused about how to play or has some conflicted loyalty thing going on. But that might count as throwing the game, hmm.
This is an interesting thought tbh. Perhaps she came in with a strat and then got culted and now doesn't know what to do. She did say this was her first game aside from EIM, so I kinda want to chalk it up to newness. She's got a target painted on her back and we're ganging up on her, so she's not sure what exactly to do. I'm hoping that this isn't just a case where she's throwing the game but instead is trying to figure out what to do.

None of this will probably be super helpful right now, unless Bio or Ben went in for a revenge attack for being considered sus. It's worth noting tho that Godot did out himself as town on day 1, and so that probably put a big ol' target on his back for the SK (assuming that's who targeted him) to try and shoot. Doctor clearly made a lucky call in protecting him.
What do you mean when you say that Godot outed himself as Town on Day 1? Somebody saying "haha I'm Town I'm on your side" counts for nothing in this game; anyone can do that and most people do. Given the events of last night I agree he is most likely town, but I don't see how this has anything to do with D1.
I know someone saying "haha I'm town" doesn't count for much this day, but of all the players in the game, Godot was the only one to claim town and also the only one who claimed they were attacked (and healed). It's interesting how that worked out, and I also agree that I think he's most likely town. All of that was just observation though, and I don't plan on acting on any of it right now because it would feel like more of a wild guess than anything substantial, and after we lynched a TPR on day 1, I don't want to take another chance and mislynch again. It's just something I want to keep in mind, but again, it's nothing I want to pursue at this second.

Ok, one thing to keep in mind is that most likely, CL recruited someone last night. Probably someone active, so they can sway the votes easier, but not so much so that they are a likely SK target. I'm gonna say that Typholsion and Mystical seem too high profile as targets, and Lulu SAF and Godot more likely to be Lynched, leaving Luke Strife, Vivid Stardust, Biohazard, Felly and Myself as most likely potential Cult.
I definitely agree that CL most likely recruited someone last night. Considering their win condition is to be at equal or greater numbers than town and we lynched a TPR on day 1, I feel like it would've been in their best interest to recruit someone because it'd put them one step closer to winning. I just have some things I want to address with your potential cult targets.

• Why do you think Typhlosion and Mystical are too high profile to be considered targets? I know they've been active in the game, but do you think they've been so active that they'd be likely SK targets? Also, is there anything that's making you not consider them cult at all?
• I'm also interested in why you think Lulu and Godot would be more likely to be lynched. I can see why you'd put SAF there, given that so far, there's been a vote to lynch her already, and there's been a few of us who have been pressuring her because of her play thus far. It's just Lulu and Godot that are throwing me off here. If anything, Godot is more likely to be killed off than lynch since it seems like people are considering him to be town, and he's claimed as much. I know he could be claiming town and could actually be cult, but there's been nothing to make it seem like he's going to be lynched right now. I've got two questions here though. One, why do you think Lulu is a potential lynch? I haven't seen her say too much this day phase (and can't remember off the top of my head how much she contributed to the first), but I can't remember anyone really wanting to lynch her, other than wild guesses from day 1 that aren't really much of anything to go off, at least not right now. And two, why do you think Godot is a potential lynch? Again, people seem to be considering him town, so he seems low on the priority list to be lynched right now. What makes you think he's lynchworthy?
• And finally, why do you think Luke, Vivid, Bio, and myself are potential cult? I'm not gonna ask you to explain why you think you're potential cult because I don't want to make you feel like you have to share your role with everyone, but I am interested in your reasoning for everyone else.

I guess what I'm really looking for here is your reads on everyone thus far. I think you're the first person that's really put up a potential list of who the cult leader could've recruited on night 1, and I think me and Typhlosion are really the only ones to have really noticed it. (And we're both on opposite ends of the spectrum here, based on your list.)

Also, Felly, I'm keeping your post about why Godot could have been shot in mind, just so you know I'm not ignoring you. Same thing with Godot's impressions.
No worries! Like I told Ben a lil higher up in the post, it's nothing I really want to pursue right now because at the moment, it's just "potential revenge attack," and I don't really want to push that right now. We already lynched a TPR on day 1, so I don't want to make another mistake like that again. If Bio or Ben are SK, I'd like to have a lot more reasoning than "potential revenge attack" before I start pushing it, and I don't have that right now.

I feel the difference is attitude. Foolhard was just chilling because it was day 0. It sounded like he was genuinely surprised of the amount of votes against him. SAF isn't chilling; she's just playing passive victim. It's like she's doing everything one shouldn't do as town. But both do share the apathy, that's true. I think I told her how she can help, but if she doesn't change her attitude, my vote will stay. It may or may not become a lynch, though. That's up to others as well.

It does get frustrating when people play this way, no matter what faction they are in. I get people may be new to the game, but it ruins it a bit when people don't even want to try. Sigh oh well, I know it's just a game, though. Nothing personal against anyone.
I agree that SAF is just being the passive victim right now; she hasn't really given us a reason to not lynch her, but I'm not sure she really has given us one either. I don't want to say don't lynch her right now, but I also don't want to say to do it either. I want to believe she just doesn't know what to do in this case, with so many jumping on her right at the start of the day, because she's a newer player, and I just kinda want to give her benefit of the doubt, at least for now. I don't think she's said anything since others have given her advice, so I want to at least give her a chance to respond again. I'm hesitant to lynch her on this day just because I don't want to lynch her and then find out she's another town, possibly a power role, and we're down another town. We already know we're down one from lynching Foolhard day 1, and like Moonwatcher said, cult leader most likely recruited someone night 1 too. If that's the case, we're already down 2 townies.

My feelings may change as the day progresses, but for now, I'm going to hold my vote. It's still relatively early in the day phase and there's still a few days before it really ends and the pressure is on to make a decision, so there's time to think things out further.
 

Biohazard

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@Typhlosion To be honest, Foolhard could try to defend himself and he wouldn't get mislynched, as it was an actually a big mistake to vote for him because we lost a TPR. I feel it was actually bad to vote on D1 because that's what happens when you lynch too early, as we mislynched a TPR.

I'll be making a reads list today, as I'm less busy today.
 

Luke Strife

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If you had to pick one person as scum right now, even on gut instinct or a wild guess, who would it be?
-Hard to say. From what I've seen, the most likely players to be viewed as Town tend to follow something like a bell-curve. The most talkative and the least talkative of the players always seem to be the most accused. Everyone is on edge at the moment, having accusations thrown at someone tends to put them on the defensive and hyper analyse what the accuser is saying. Food for thought.
You've only mentioned SAF so far in this phase. Honestly looks a lot like coaching, so fair warning that if SAF ends up flipping cult I'll be taking a closer look at you. Any more reads on people, maybe those who don't fall so much within your bell curve of controversy?
I'm honestly not sure about Luke. He's at least offering SAF advice which, operating under the assumption that others are jumping to conclusions about SAF a little too early, could just be politely assisting another player. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. That said, I do agree it's a little odd that he's only directly mentioned SAF up to now.
I just wanted to address these immediately, I'll say so far the issue has been mostly timezone related. Most of your (as in the general "you") active phase are during the time I'm asleep, so that when I come to this thread, I will only be able to respond to so much. I was at work all afternoon and didn't finish till late, and then went to bed not long after. My past replies have been in direct response to the issues at hand, so while I appreciate that both of you felt the need to point out me only mentioning SAF so far, that is because that was the issue at the time I was active. I do not like the defeatist attitude, I've been there and done that myself as a brand new player. It's an easy trap to fall into and I only wanted to offer words of encouragement. If it turns out she is scum, it will have been a very short game indeed, and where is the fun in that, while she's playing the victim and just wants to give up?

Now that a bit more has happened, I'd be happy to share my thoughts on people. I don't have a ton of time before I go to work, but I'll see what I can fit in now before then. Just going to nip for a shower and get my lunch before I start this properly.
 

Rainbow Rocket Grunt

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Okay, here's the rest of my reads, and I'm gonna quote myself of the other two:

She(Biohazard) has a lot more of a town lean since she is actively promoting discussion and has good answers to questions, however she still is in the neutral because most of her posts were short not really a proper excuse but I just have a feeling...

And also I'm not gonna place my vote on SAF just yet. While she has this deftest attitude... she's kinda acting how I acted when I first started playing mafia games tbh. So she's in the true neutral for me.
Ben and Mystical are kinda in a boat with each other. They've been asking questions and really trying to invoke discussions(

Luke has been a bit lacking on the activity side(and with the above post I understand why) but most of his posts have been helpful

Moonwatcher's posts have also been helpful. He isn't really asking questions, however his posts give his reasoning to stuff and he stuck by them. The "I told you so" think was probably him being frustrated tbh.

Felly has really been putting her ideas out there. She also has really been invoking discussions, but what keeps her separate from Ben/Mystical is that she's been asking less questions.

Godot hasn't really been posting long posts(and I know he said he most likely wouldn't be doing that) but most of his posts aren't really helpful... but he was healed by a doc so thats something.

Vivid has also been invoking discussions and really asking questions, and she has been posting a lot. Her posts are a little bit shorter, but thats nothing to really worry about tbh.

And also for good measure I'll post my order of trusting you guys :P

Mystical
Ben
Godot(bc of that doc heal)
Vivid
Felly/Biohazard(can't decide -_-)
Moonwatcher
Luke
SAF
 

Luke Strife

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Right, I'll post what I have so far. The list of folks are in order that they're written in the first post, it's not that I have any particular importance ascribed to the ones listed here over the ones I'll do later.

LuluRina

She seems very eager and enthusiastic. While in the beginning she was getting a bit defensive, this seems to have eased off now. She's clearly very passionate about the game, given the way she's handled the Foolhard and SAF situations. Maybe it's more a naïve read on my part, but for the moment I'm thinking she's town. Just the feel I'm getting from the way her posts read with how they flow, she seems to care too much about the state of things to be anything other than town.

Biohazard

I've been enjoying her posts so far. The questioning has been good for generating discussion. That being said I don't like the way she suddenly backpedalled after the mislynch. While at first she seemed pretty adamant to lynch, she's now in full retreat and now says she didn't want to lynch at all. At least that's how it seems from her last post. I'm going to be keeping a bit of an eye on her, just in case there are any other inconsistencies.

SAF

She's very clearly new to the game. She's making bad plays with her posts. Could be one of two ways, scum throwing the game or a defeatist town. Neither of which are very entertaining or all that useful to us. To address a hypothesis that was brought up a while ago, I think if a CL had chosen to recruit her, that would be more of a reflection of bad play on the CL's part more than her. No offence to you, SAF.

Godot

He's an interesting one, that's for sure. Posts very frequently but with very short messages. I know he's already addressed this sooner, but still it's quite interesting to me. Gives me a weird vibe. Most of the thread I've spent wishing he'd go more indepth with his thoughts rather than this surface-level stuff. Glad to see a bigger post with reads now though. I'm just hoping to see more detail given to later posts. I also find the target on him last night to be particularly intriguing though, presuming that it is true. It's quite the coincidence to be the target of both the SK and the Doctor. Was this pure random luck? Or him ********ting? If we're to take this scenario seriously, it just seems kinda odd that both the Doctor felt like Godot would be the one to get attacked, AND actually be the one who was attacked. If it's true, it makes me really wonder who the SK is. Trying to figure what the motive was. Is it a case of “this person isn't an obvious target, so therefore would be good to attack”? My mind boggles with whether it was luck, or if this story is just ******** to try and stir a bit. I hope we're able to verify this story, one way or another.

I have to get to work now. I'll be home some time after 10pm my time. I promise I'll do the rest of my thoughts/reads then.

I also want to apologise for my lack of activity in here compared to other people. I've had a busy weekend what with work and such, and then too tired for this brain stuff when I get home in the evening. Tomorrow I'll have a day off and Tuesday I ought to be home most of the afternoon, though, so I hope to make up for my infrequent posting.
 

Biohazard

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@Luke Strife Where I said that I didn't wanted to lynch at all? I only said that I regret lynching on D1.
 

Moonwatcher

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@Moonwatcher fair enough. What's your timezone? Some people's timezones are awkward, and I understand. The votes did seem to snowball a lot, but sometimes the game does gain more activity during the last hours of the day. We definitely should try to be more careful, though.
My timezone's GMT. And apparently I misread, it was only Lulu's post onwards that I was asleep for. But my point still stands, as I was fine with those first votes, as they were pressure votes, which are a valid tactic. But yeah, timezones are a pain. (For the record, I'm most likely to post in the mornings weekdays, and the afternoon/evening weekends. I can't always get online on weekday evenings anymore. :/)

I definitely agree that CL most likely recruited someone last night. Considering their win condition is to be at equal or greater numbers than town and we lynched a TPR on day 1, I feel like it would've been in their best interest to recruit someone because it'd put them one step closer to winning. I just have some things I want to address with your potential cult targets.

• Why do you think Typhlosion and Mystical are too high profile to be considered targets? I know they've been active in the game, but do you think they've been so active that they'd be likely SK targets? Also, is there anything that's making you not consider them cult at all?
• I'm also interested in why you think Lulu and Godot would be more likely to be lynched. I can see why you'd put SAF there, given that so far, there's been a vote to lynch her already, and there's been a few of us who have been pressuring her because of her play thus far. It's just Lulu and Godot that are throwing me off here. If anything, Godot is more likely to be killed off than lynch since it seems like people are considering him to be town, and he's claimed as much. I know he could be claiming town and could actually be cult, but there's been nothing to make it seem like he's going to be lynched right now. I've got two questions here though. One, why do you think Lulu is a potential lynch? I haven't seen her say too much this day phase (and can't remember off the top of my head how much she contributed to the first), but I can't remember anyone really wanting to lynch her, other than wild guesses from day 1 that aren't really much of anything to go off, at least not right now. And two, why do you think Godot is a potential lynch? Again, people seem to be considering him town, so he seems low on the priority list to be lynched right now. What makes you think he's lynchworthy?
• And finally, why do you think Luke, Vivid, Bio, and myself are potential cult? I'm not gonna ask you to explain why you think you're potential cult because I don't want to make you feel like you have to share your role with everyone, but I am interested in your reasoning for everyone else.

I guess what I'm really looking for here is your reads on everyone thus far. I think you're the first person that's really put up a potential list of who the cult leader could've recruited on night 1, and I think me and Typhlosion are really the only ones to have really noticed it. (And we're both on opposite ends of the spectrum here, based on your list.)
Typholsion and Mystical were both encuraging disscusion and pushing along conversation. Both are dangerous for the SK, putting them at the top of the list. No active disscusion = less chance of a lynch, allowing the SK to pick people off or otherwise steer the day easier. Whereas Culting them would be a big benifit to the Cult, I doubt they would be fist pick, as being higher targets for the SK would also mean a higher chance of losing their only recruit.

Lulu and Godot were with SAF for the fact that they basically push a pressure vote into an actual Lynch. As such, they would be the most likely suspect for day 2. I didn't see many people claiming that Godot was garanteed town,(And I still dont TBH,) hence adding him to the list.

As for the others, honestly, my reasoning is that they haven't done anything to draw themselves into the spotlight. They didn't bandwagon on votes, had good enough reasoning for their posts, but also didn't push forward much disscussion in comparison.

I had voted for Foolhard thinking that we wouldn't get the number required to lynch and honestly at the time I'd hoped we wouldn't if only to get a few more answers. While I had wanted to take the high road in my very first post, unfortunately I (even if I didn't post it) understood that voting someone up is a way to gain information. By the time the vote was locked, I'd already given in to the sunk cost fallacy. And perhaps it was bandwagoning, I'm sorry. Mob mentality got the best of me.
Ok, this sound off to me. You were the 5th vote, making it only one vote away from a lynch. There was already enough pressure on Foolhard, so your vote would not have made a difference in any way other than a helping an actual lynch, which you claim wasn't your intention. Also, a short time before:

Yeah, I second /vote skip. To early to tell and we risk screwing ourselves over if we vote up anyone.
So you were against it, until it actually happens? Yeah, no. I'm not buying that. Your claim that mob mentality got the better of you feels like a hasty attempt to cover your tracks to me. Right now I'd say you're my number 1 suspect.

As for SAF, I honestly thinkg that it's just a case of being new to the game. The total lack of defence is completely counter intuitive for the Cult/SK, so either she's going for a ridiculously risky WIFOM, or she'd new and doesn't know how everything works yet.
 

Godot

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Honestly, I'm indecisive and kinda stupid at times and every so often I act without thinking, Moon. If I go any further, it's all self-deprecation and role revealing because I'm not used to the forum format. I don't type much because I'm overly critical of my writing even in social posts, simply looking at the amount of time I spend typing messages on the discord or editing messages I wrote on the discord to minimize typos is admittedly excessive but I feel useless if what I'm writing has a glaring typo.

I'm only a little less lost than SAF, which is to say still utterly lost. And I hate writing long drawn out posts because I literally take hours to write those. Opinions on movies can take me half a day at the longest. Which is saying something because I'm usually re-watching them to refresh my memory while I write. That's literally all I can say in my defense, anything more will be self deprecating while swearing.
 

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On the writing front, if I'm writing a post I know I can't edit I'm ****ed. Is that what you want, Moon? Do you want long posts from me that take forever to write and even longer to give a cursory check to make sure I didn't typo? Because if that's what you want, there's a good chance that what I'm typing won't even be completed by this evening because there will be more responses to attempt to respond to.
 

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I also find the target on him last night to be particularly intriguing though, presuming that it is true. It's quite the coincidence to be the target of both the SK and the Doctor. Was this pure random luck? Or him ********ting? If we're to take this scenario seriously, it just seems kinda odd that both the Doctor felt like Godot would be the one to get attacked, AND actually be the one who was attacked. If it's true, it makes me really wonder who the SK is. Trying to figure what the motive was. Is it a case of “this person isn't an obvious target, so therefore would be good to attack”? My mind boggles with whether it was luck, or if this story is just ******** to try and stir a bit. I hope we're able to verify this story, one way or another.
Something to take note of.

Maybe now can be a good time to specualate more on power roles.

Power roles have different categories, yeah? Like others said on day one, we have the attacking roles, like vigilante and gunsmith. The defensive roles, like doctor, weak doctor and bodyguard. There are other roles, that act as disruptive, like dancer and bus driver. Then the investigative roles, like sheriff, watcher and tracker. Now, in a game like this where there's only one evil killing role, I doubt there would be more than one defensive role. So if there's a doctor, there's less chance of having a weak doctor or a bodyguard as well. So fake claiming attacked and healed would be very risky, because the real doctor/weak doctor/bodyguard could counterclaim and say they didn't save him.

Typholsion and Mystical were both encuraging disscusion and pushing along conversation. Both are dangerous for the SK, putting them at the top of the list. No active disscusion = less chance of a lynch, allowing the SK to pick people off or otherwise steer the day easier. Whereas Culting them would be a big benifit to the Cult, I doubt they would be fist pick, as being higher targets for the SK would also mean a higher chance of losing their only recruit.

Lulu and Godot were with SAF for the fact that they basically push a pressure vote into an actual Lynch. As such, they would be the most likely suspect for day 2. I didn't see many people claiming that Godot was garanteed town,(And I still dont TBH,) hence adding him to the list.

As for the others, honestly, my reasoning is that they haven't done anything to draw themselves into the spotlight. They didn't bandwagon on votes, had good enough reasoning for their posts, but also didn't push forward much disscussion in comparison.
So according to you, one of us should have been the serial killer's target instead of Godot?
So what you're saying is we would blame them for the lynch on Foolhard? What about Felly then? Or Victoria? They also voted for Foolhard. Why are they not in this group?
 
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