Knocking on Heaven's Gate - A Mafia-Less Mafia Game - OVER - Cult Wins

What should I do with this game if we don't get any more people?

  • Shut It Down

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Transform It Into Standard

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • I Don't Care

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Moonwatcher

/人◕‿‿◕人\
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@Godot Umm, what? How does spelling and length of posts relate to what I said? I literally only said that you were contradicting your previous posts.

So according to you, one of us should have been the serial killer's target instead of Godot?
So what you're saying is we would blame them for the lynch on Foolhard? What about Felly then? Or Victoria? They also voted for Foolhard. Why are they not in this group?
Yes. that is exactly what I am saying. And by extent, you'r a higher target for a Mason recruit, as Citizen

Felly's vote came after the Lynch was locked. Everyone else on the list who voted Foolhard gave good enough reasoning for their vote, and at the time a Lynch on Foolhard wasn't as likely. There's a difference between putting on the second vote and jumping on a Lynch train.
And no, I'm not saying you'd blame them, I'm saying that they look more suspicious as they jumped on whatever Lynch was happening, which is exactly what I'd expect the Cult/SK to do. The Cult/SK would know who is Town, and any lynch not on themselves is good for them. Plus, as Foolhard turned up town, the only things we'd have to go on today would be who voted for him and how; those three IMO gave the least reasoning and were the most suspect timing-wise.




Role wise, I assume that since no-one's reported being Jailed, that we dont have a jailor this game. Also, no one reported being bussed. Do we still get a notification is we're bussed? Or was that gone in this game? Cause if it's still here, then we can most likely write off Bus Driver as well.
 

Godot

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Guess I misread what you said. Sorry, I thought there was mention of my short posts being a problem. May have conflated your post with Luke's, which would be me being stupid again. You're right though that Lulu, SAF, and I gave the least reasoning for our bandwagoning. But again I have learned from that incident, and I don't plan on voting without thinking this time. We don't know whose got town power roles outside of the regrettably now deceased Foolhard.

As for role speculation: We could have a jailer that didn't perform their night action last night. Night actions aren't necessarily mandatory. Doctor could have just as easily chosen not to heal anyone, or heal themself. Hypothetically speakin' of course. You do raise a good point about the Bus Driver though, Moon, but I assume that the bussed player would be alerted to the fact they got bussed. Just like role blocked or jailed players would be alerted that they've been jailed or role blocked. Or how an attacked and healed player, like myself, would be alerted that they were attacked and healed.
 

Mystical

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@Godot it's all right. That's partly why we are allowed to double-post. No one will judge you for a typo. Also, if it's easier for you to write shorter posts, then that's fine. With lengthy posts we can get a better feeling of you, I think, or at least when you give a more deep reasoning. But if it stresses you, then don't feel obligated to.

I think Moonwatcher is town. I think his getting frustrated over lynching a PR is genuine and not something a CL SK or culted town would need to do, because for them, a mislynch would not be a bad thing.

Felly's play has been helpful and even if her posts are not too frequent, I think she's bringing up discussion and new ideas.

I'd think Lulu, Luke, and Godot are town, but of course I can't be completely sure about them. They're trying to help, but scum can also look as trying to help. (I know I did in my first game as scum).

I feel less sure about Victoria, but at the same time I wouldn't say she's doing anything inherently wrong. Her play just seems kind of similar to others I've seen from her.

I already talked about SAF, but you all are right in saying she could just be inexperienced town. But she still hasn't apoeared since the last time she was questioned, which could also be a scum tactic.

I want to look more into Vivid's posts, to be honest. I'm getting a weird feeling, but it could just be paranoia.

As for your reasoning, Moon, SK would still need to be careful of higher profile players because of the risk of a watcher, or a doctor/bodyguard healing or setting on those high-profile players. The reason why I didn't want us to go into full speculation is because I didn't necessarily want to give them these hints of how and how much they need to be careful of their targets. But it seems that they have enough experience to know this, given that they went for a target that not everyone would think to save. That, or I'm looking too much into this.

Either way. I think for now we can assume there's no busdriver, jailer, or dancer, as they all give notifications. I'd think the missing roles (three aside from gunsmith and doctor/weak doctor) could be two investigative (town needs a bit more help in finding scum) and then one extra. The extra could be mayor or commuter. And mason leader could work as either one investigative (they more or less work as a sheriff but not really) or one extra. They give the advantage of the people they do manage to recruit being immune from being culted and having a night chat where they can strategize.
 

Vivid Stardust

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Before I start, I'd like to apologize for disappearing for a day and a half. School has been really stressful lately, and my mental health has been making everything harder. I'm here now, and I'm going to be slightly more available now that the majority of my homework is done, and I only have to really worry about one class. I have been reading up on everyone's messages, so I know what's going on, for the most part. This will be a long post, but I'll split it into parts.

Here's my reads list. I found the one I had partially typed out, so that saves me some trouble.

Mystical/Isa: She’s currently my strongest townread at the moment.
- If she was Cult Leader and genuinely thought that discussing possible TPRs would benefit the Cult, she wouldn't have tried to stop the conversation she would have encouraged it. She also wouldn't have questioned me about why I was interested in the roles list.

- She said that she did not want to no lynch on day one if possible. Even though she didn't vote for anyone, she wanted to discuss lynching, rather than just skipping the day. Generally, people in town want to lynch unless it's a MYLO situation. See: Curry's play in "Return to a Simple Tale".

- While she didn't vote for him, she did say that she was wary of Foolhard's behavior, and that she wanted to keep an eye on him and Godot (who had been acting suspiciously according to Isa as well). I think this shows that she wants to think things through, and while she wants to help town, she doesn't want to get a mislynch if it can be helped.


- She tried to get SAF to actually answer questions, rather than just pointing out how suspiciously she was acting.

- Trying to analyze the votes on Foolhard to try and scumhunt is definitely a town move.

- Questioning others' responses on the thread consistently

Typhlosion: Townread, TPR

- Questioning everyone consistently, much like Mystical/Isa

- Answers everyone's questions even though we have no reason to be suspicious of him (This is good town play, in my opinion.)

- Has not been afraid to call people out on things they say that don't sound right (Myself, Godot, Moonwatcher, etc.)

- Seems to think that Vigilante is still a possibility

- He seems to want everyone to talk, much like Mystical. He won't let anything slide in terms of votes and posts, and he seems to have been keeping up with the thread the whole time.

Biohazard/Lycoris: Also a townread, also possibly a TPR.

- Her first instinct when the game started was to ask questions and try to gather information and theorize. It's important to get discussion going on day one when you're town, so that you have information from day play as well as night play on day one.

- Her day play on day one was fairly aggressive (questioning everyone, being one of the first votes on Foolhard for a lynch, etc.), and while she has been less active on day two, she is still trying to help town and question others. It's possible that she's trying to make herself look like a TPR so she can get a target on her back and sway the scum away from the TPRs.

- Gave clear reasoning when she voted for Foolhard, probably the clearest reasoning out of all of the people that voted to lynch him day one (including myself). She wasn't bandwagoning or trying to appear town when she did this; she just said, "Foolhard's sus, here's why he's sus, I'm voting for him." I personally think that clear reasoning for voting is a sign of a town player.

Godot: At the moment, I’m willing to believe that Godot is town, but I wouldn't say he's confirmed town.

- Godot has been acting paranoid since day one. He's been slow to trust Ben/Typhlosion, who has been acting pro-town.

- Being double targeted night one freaked him out a bit.

- As some people (namely Typhlosion and Moonwatcher pointed out, the post where he voted for Foolhard was bandwagony and off. ("Off" in the sense that he wanted to skip day earlier, but then he voted for Foolhard and said he was "giving into the majority")

- Clearly someone thinks Godot is town because why would he be targeted by the Doctor/Weak Doctor if that player thought that Godot was possibly CL or SK?

- Doesn't want the Doctor to reveal, even though a reveal of Weak Doctor would confirm him as town. He doesn't want to put a partially confirmed TPR in danger, which is definitely a town move in my eyes.

LuluRina: I’m pretty sure she’s town at this point.

- When Typhlosion called her out for not really contributing, she not only explained herself (it wasn't the best, but she tried), she also started contributing more after that.

- She responded to Mystical's questions about her townreads fairly quickly.

- Got excited over the fact that we have a doctor

- Her reads list was short, but she justified every read she gave at least a little bit.

Felly: Neutral, very slight town lean

- Felly's vote on Foolhard was a bit of a bandwagon, but she gave at least some justification for her vote, even if it wasn't as clear as Biohazard's was.

- Agreed with me that we should try to be more careful on our future lynches. Some people didn't even acknowledge that we hit a TPR on day one.

- Questioning SAF early on day two can be read as town.

- Checked back on day one to see who was suspicious of Godot

- Questioning Moonwatcher about her suspicions as to who was recruited last night

- A lot of Felly's posts day one didn't seem to have as much substance, from what I remember, but her day two play has been picking up a bit.


Moonwatcher: Neutral
- She got frustrated with the results of the day one lynch, even though, as Mystical and Typhlosion pointed out, she didn't really contribute to that conversation or try to stop the lynch. If she thought Foolhard was town, why didn't she tell us that? Even if we didn't believe her, that would have made more sense.

- Pointed out what SAF was doing wrong, but didn't try to question her. I can't tell if this is an expert player trying to help a newbie, or a CL trying to help her cult recruit from the shadows.

- When Typhlosion called her out on the first point, she claims she 'had nothing to say' and that anything she said would just be pointless rambling. Even if it's pointless rambling to you, it's important to get all of your thoughts out there.

- Goes back and apologizes when Mystical calls her out, claiming that she was asleep when most of the votes were placed. It comes across as backtracking.

- Created a very broad list of people who potentially got recruited last night as Cult and doesn't seem to have much reasoning behind it

- Called out Godot for jumping on the bandwagon and doubts his credibility as town (This is a point for and against, in my opinion. Godot did jump on the bandwagon (he gave reasons for it, but it was definitely bandwagoning), but questioning someone who seems to be town is a little weird.)

- Defends SAF's play and says that she's probably new (see my point above about how this comes across as possibly CL defending Cult Recruit)

- Does seem to be responding to accusations and the like, which is better than I can say for SAF


Luke Strife: Neutral
- Seemed to agree that talking about possible town power roles wouldn't give the Cult Leader an advantage

- Very vague on his suspicions

- He doesn't want to come off as bandwagoning.

- He doesn't seem to want to question people, but he still encourages SAF to actually defend herself and play the game, saying she comes off as "defeatist". While this may be true, this does make me wonder about the whole Cult Leader/Cult Recruit thing that I mentioned with Moonwatcher.

- His analysis on some of the players so far was really detailed, and while he didn't give a full reads list, his analysis thus far has given me a bit of a town impression.

- Also defended SAF as a new player, much like Moonwatcher

- I'd like him to contribute more if he can (not that I'm one to talk).


SAF: Either scum or a really bad town player, I can’t tell which. I talked about this yesterday, but SAF comes across as sus for me.

- I was mostly bothered by the way SAF wrote her vote. She specifically said that she "had no choice" when she voted for Foolhard. This comes off as odd to me. We weren’t pressuring her, and there were still a few hours to go before EOD.

- She flip flopped on her votes rather quickly, going from no lynch to wanting to lynch Foolhard, to worrying about lynching him and asking if she should take her vote off.

- She never gave any specific reasoning for voting for Foolhard, and she admitted she was bandwagoning.

- Her responses to the questions were slightly vague. She answered both Biohazard's questions and Typhlosion's, but her only other responses involved voting and pointing out that Typhlosion didn't account for the Serial Killer when he was thinking about town:scum ratio.

- Says she's "cornered", which is a weird thing for a townsperson to say. If she knows she's town, wouldn't she at least try to defend herself?

- Admits that she bandwagoned and didn't have a reason to justify it

- Asking to be lynched in post #133 is either her giving up on the game or acting out of desperation because she doesn't know what to do.

- She hasn't posted since she asked to be lynched.

A lot of people have theorized about why Godot of all people was targeted by (presumably) the Serial Killer, and not say, Mystical or Typhlosion. I think part of why Mystical and Typhlosion weren't targeted was due to WIFOM. If anyone was most likely to be protected last night, it'd be the two people who have been giving most of the group town vibes. The Serial Killer probably didn't target them because they presumed Mystical and/or Typhlosion would be protected, and they didn't want to risk their kill getting blocked. (Not that it helped much, since Godot got healed.) As for why Godot was targeted...I'm not really sure either. I'm not sure why both the Serial Killer and the Doctor/Weak Doctor targeted him, but in any case, it worked out in town's favor. Probably. We don't know who got recruited by the Cult Leader last night, but for right now, town's a bit ahead.

Also, I want to address some of the concerns directed at me, since people have been asking me questions.

@Typhlosion


- Hah, kind of amusing in hindsight. So now that it's been proven we did have a Gunsmith among the roles, what do you think about our odds of also having one or both of the other two?
I still think there's a slight possibility of both, but I'm highly doubting we have a Jailer at this point. I'm still hoping a little bit for a Vigilante so we can possibly get rid of Cult and the Serial Killer later in the game, but I think the actual chances of us having one are low.


- Do you think there's a certain distinction to be made where quantity becomes as important as quality? What would you think about a player who didn't post at all in a phase but was known to be active elsewhere on the forums?
It depends. I think when the quality of someone's posts are high, but they don't post as much, it might not be a big deal because long posts take a while to write out (this post took over two hours to write). However, quantity can indicate someone who wants to appear town because town players are encouraged to participate as much as possible. If someone didn't post at all in a phase but was active in the forums, I probably wouldn't notice it. If I had to say what I'd think, I would say that it could just indicate that someone might not have anything to say, but they want to be on just in case they need to respond to the game. They also could have forgotten to check on the game, or they could just...not have the energy to respond to a game at that particular time. (If this is you calling me out for occasionally being active, but not posting, I will say that my reasons were all of the ones I mentioned.)

- Does this townread of Isa because she was pro-lynch apply exclusively to her in this situation, or is it your opinion that pushing for a D1 lynch is a town tell in general?
In this specific instance, I'm applying it specifically to Isa and Biohazard. It was a combination of Isa/Mystical and Biohazard's behavior that made me read both of them as town. I don't think pushing for a day one lynch is always a townread. (I actually thought Curry could possibly be scum in that first game until he died and was revealed as town, because he was pushing for one without a lot of other town-like behavior to back it up.)

@Mystical

- When it came to voting for Foolhard, the reason why I said his posts felt off is because he honestly didn't seem like he was even trying to play. In the two posts he made prior to EOD day one, he didn't even answer all of the questions people asked him. He seemed to be blowing day one off, and he was acting anti-town by not only not answering questions, but also by not trying to scumhunt or even think about who might be suspicious. His posts also felt...weird. It's a little hard to explain, but he came across as untrustworthy. (I guess that's the best way to put it.) While I did find SAF super suspicious on day one, I kept my vote on Foolhard because while it might not have been the most well thought out lynch (obviously, he turned out to be the Gunsmith), but I thought that lynching might still give us important information.

- Regarding post #164, I'd like to know what about my posts are giving you an odd vibe. I want to understand what I've been saying that sounds off to you, and I'll try to explain my thinking if I can.


Also, since I've seen multiple people miss this, I'd just like to politely remind everyone that I use they/them pronouns. (It's in my signature, but you can't view signatures on mobile, so people might've missed that.)
 

Mystical

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Well, just small things, really. Mostly how you said you were going to keep an eye on SAF, but then sort of disappeared, and how you hinted that I should be protected on day one. I mean, that could be taken as pro-town, but could also have been town being culted if SAF was cult leader or SK trying to throw attention off. Like I said, maybe it was me pointing fingers because someone has to be scum. But I feel better with your last post. Oh, well. I'll look more into things tomorrow.

Also, yeah, I did see that you preferred they/them as pronouns, though I'm sorry if I ever used anything else.
 

Felly

not in love tonight
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Just want to start this off by saying that I apologize if I'm using the incorrect pronouns for anyone here. I'm relatively new and I'm trying to get it all right, but I may still be messing it up for some people. I promise I'm not trying to do it intentionally though, and I do want to get it right! If I am using the incorrect pronouns for anyone from here on out, just yell at me here or on Discord or forum PMs, so I don't keep getting it wrong! (I'd offer to edit my post too, but I can't without getting yelled at, so just know the thought's there!)

Also, apologies on not being able to post too much. As I stated in another post, I do work early afternoons/nights at my job (because it coincides with my mom's work schedule as she also works early afternoons/nights at her job and we have one vehicle between the both of us), so I'm typically not getting on my computer until late at night most nights when I do have to work. I am reading the thread on my phone throughout the day, but I've never been a huge fan of typing out lengthy posts on mobile so I just wait till I get home to read everything over and reply to stuff. I've also just been working crazy hours at work lately; I got scheduled for 24 hours and somehow ended up working 27 hours. At least my paychecks are nice.

On to some substance, I'll provide my reads on people.

LuluRina - Neutral
→ Mentioned she was new to forum Mafia, but she seems to be providing more info in her posts for day 2. I think she's just getting used to how things are going here, so I'm just putting her in as neutral for now because I haven't really been able to tell if she's cult or town from her posts.
→ She did mention that she didn't seem to care if she was bandwagoning on the Foolhard lynch for day 1, but she did also mention that she was suspicious of him. I can't remember how she felt about the lynch after learning Foolhard was a TPR, but she pretty much had the same sentiments as myself and some others as well, and I too jumped on the bandwagon, so I can't hold too much gravity on this at the moment without being hypocritcal. Just something I at least want to note, in case it's important later. Overall, she's not high on my lynch list.

Biohazard - Neutral, slight lean towards cult
→ Was one of the ones who wanted a day 1 lynch because it could provide information. She also added a second vote to Foolhard because day 1 was ending and she wanted to lynch, among other reasons mentioned in her post. Her other reasons were valid, but the "lynching because I want to lynch day 1" just sticks out to me and rubs me the wrong way, especially since she added to a lynch that was just a pressure vote at the time. I'm not saying she's the reason why the lynch Foolhard train kept rolling, but she did contribute to it. Again, I know I also joined in on the lynch Foolhard party, but unless I missed something, I think she's the only one who didn't really admit to bandwagoning on that vote, whereas I think everyone else who voted after Ben's initial pressure vote has.

SAF - Neutral
→ She's admitted she's a new player, so I think a lot of her play seems to be just uncertainty on what to do. I'm glad to see others stepping up to help her out though! When I went back to read day 1 for my reads, I saw a lot of that uncertainty in her voting for Foolhard. She'd originally done a vote skip for day 1, then changed to Foolhard because she felt like there was no other choice, which we questioned her on day 1. I feel like she's just not 100% sure what to do, so she's following along with others because it feels like the right thing to do.
→ She did get super defeatist at the start of day 2 when a few of us, myself included, started pressuring her. I'm wondering if maybe she saw what happened day 1 with Foolhard, and now she's thinking that she may not be able to defend herself, or maybe just doesn't know how to really do that.

Godot - Town? Leaning a bit towards neutral
→ He seemed hesitant to speculate day 1, but he's been talking more now. I know he's mentioned that lengthy posts take a lil while for him to write up, and that's fine because it sounds like it'd be overwhelming for him to make lengthy posts, but I think he can still provide information through short posts.
→ Claimed town day 1. This could all be a trick on us, but it is worth noting that he was targeted by SK (assuming that's who went for him) and also healed by doctor/weak doctor in the same night. That's some good luck right there.
→ He also seconded the vote skip on day 1, so it seems like he was just going along with SAF and not really wanting to take full advantage of the day phase to draw out as much info as possible.
→ There was also a post where he seemed apathetic about speculation for day 1, thinking it wouldn't get us anywhere. Again, I think he's starting to talk more now, and it seems like he's speculating more now that it's day 2 and we have a full day/night cycle behind us.
→ It also kinda seemed like he was conceding to the other Foolhard votes when it came to the lynch. In the same vein, I think he's learned his lesson from that and is now more hesitant to lynch SAF for similar reasons.

Luke Strife - Neutral, slight town lean
→ He pointed out the numbers for us on day 1 and shared what could happen if we lynched day 1 and SK and cult got someone. I feel like the numbers are something to keep in mind, especially here on out.
→ Otherwise, I haven't seen him say too much, but I know he's in a different timezone and isn't active when much of the activity is happening here.

Mystical - Neutral, town lean
→ She's been helpful throughout the game thus far, questioning people and trying to help newer players out.
→ I see that pressure vote on SAF though, and it just concerns me a little bit. I know it's just a pressure vote right now, but I'm worried it could lead into another Foolhard situation as we get closer to the day ending. I'm hoping we've all learned our lesson from that, but time will tell on that one. It's a situation I'm going to be watching for sure, but right now, I'm seeing Isa as town.

Moonwatcher - Neutral
→ He seemed annoyed by the day 1 lynch on a TPR. I definitely saw the frustration there in his posts, and it makes me think he's town because of it. There's those of us who regretted the lynch, and then there's Moonwatcher, who voiced the frustration in the TPR lynch. I can kinda see where he's coming from too in that we didn't give Foolhard a chance to defend himself really, or just change his attitude towards the game in general. Yes, it can be said that he was given chances, but looking back on it, I think we could've held off on the lynch until day 2 to see what happened with him. It's too late now, but I'm hoping we don't make the same mistake with SAF.
→ Also shared potential cult leader targets. He's the first to do this, if I remember correctly, and on one hand, it's interesting and we were able to draw some info from him as a result of it. On the other hand, I'm wondering if it's just something to mislead us so that we focus on the wrong targets and keep lynching town while cult continues recruiting.

Typhlosion - Neutral, cult lean
→ He didn't think a day 1 lynch was important, but he put a pressure lynch on Foolhard that subsequently spiraled into a full lynch. I'm partly responsible for Foolhard's lynch as well, but it just seemed like he was kinda adamant about lynching day 1 as it went on. Even when some players said they didn't want to do it at that time, his response to them seemed like he wasn't satisfied with it and wanted them to lynch. I can't say what could've happened if we didn't end up lynching Foolhard though, but that's what I'm seeing based on what happened day 1.
→ He does seem hesitant to lynch SAF, but he also doesn't want her performance to slip away either. Understandably so, I think we all want SAF to participate more and not just give up, like she was doing in her latest posts in the thread. That's giving me a lean away from cult.

Vivid Stardust - Neutral
→ They started the discussion on TPRs, but later admitted to not thinking about the cult benefits of discussing it. Could be a little suspicious, but I'm not sure it's something worth pursuing too much right now, especially considering we've outted two TPRs and neither of them were because of that discussion. (Foolhard's lynch revealing him as Gunsmith and Godot revealing we have a doctor/weak doctor at the start of day 2.)
→ They admitted to bandwagoning on Foolhard for their minimal posting, but it's worth noting that they also pointed out SAF's lack of posting in the game as well. There's been other infrequent posters as well, not just Foolhard and SAF.
→ Overall seems neutral though; not 100% sure on if they're leaning town or cult just yet.

And now just some things I want to see...

@SAF - Could you share your thoughts on your reads on other players, if any? Are you thinking there's anyone that's cult or town at the moment, now that we've had a day/night cycle behind us? Or are there any other thoughts you have on the current state of the game, based on what's been happening? You've been kinda quiet since some of us started pressuring you, and I don't want us to make the same mistake we made with Foolhard in lynching another town, so I want to nudge you a little bit in the hopes you'll share your thoughts with us!

@Godot - Even if you post short posts like you have been with a couple suspicions or speculations per post, I feel like that's better than nothing at all. Even if it's something that others may think is insignificant now, it may be important later in the game. Something is always better than nothing. I know it can be rough, but I definitely encourage you to post and share your thoughts with us all.

And finally, I'm still leaning towards a no lynch for day 2. I do think that SAF's defeatist behavior and lack of posting isn't helping the town, but I also see that she hasn't posted since we started pressuring her. I've nudged her in this post with the hopes that she'll reply and share her thoughts with us. I don't want to have another Foolhard situation; one mistake was harmful enough for us.

I also give Biohazard and Ben cult leans in my thoughts on them, but Bio has been relatively quiet this day phase and Ben's hesitation on lynching SAF is pushing me away from the cult vibes. I also say neutral for a lot of people, but the way their leaning for me is sorta guiding my direction on who I look at. That's not to say I'm not looking at everyone because I am, but narrowing down the choices for possible cultists helps instead of just pointing fingers at people randomly, especially now that we're getting more information. I'm just not yet at a point where I feel like I can solidly call someone out on their role and feel confident about the lynch, especially after we lynched a TPR day 1. My biggest concern right now is not making another mistake like I did with the Foolhard lynch.
 

Vivid Stardust

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Well, just small things, really. Mostly how you said you were going to keep an eye on SAF, but then sort of disappeared, and how you hinted that I should be protected on day one. I mean, that could be taken as pro-town, but could also have been town being culted if SAF was cult leader or SK trying to throw attention off. Like I said, maybe it was me pointing fingers because someone has to be scum. But I feel better with your last post. Oh, well. I'll look more into things tomorrow.

Also, yeah, I did see that you preferred they/them as pronouns, though I'm sorry if I ever used anything else.
I was going to make a post analyzing all of SAF’s posts, but I was busy with schoolwork and got distracted by some other things. Everyone got onto SAF pretty quickly and pointed out exactly what was wrong with her posts, so I wasn’t sure if bringing that up again when most people have moved on was a good idea.

That’s fair. Some of what I’ve said might have come off a little suspicious, even though I didn’t intend it to, so I don’t blame you for thinking that I might be scum.

I mostly pointed the pronouns thing out because Godot referred to me as him in post #149, and LuluRina referred to me as her in post #154, and I was very confused as to why they used those pronouns. >< I don’t think you ever used the wrong pronouns, so don’t worry about that!

As far as your post, Felly, I agree that we shouldn’t bandwagon on SAF, especially since she has been quiet since she asked us to lynch her. I think all of us going hard on her posts and pointing out how she was bandwagoning might have scared her off on accident. While I am still suspicious, I can see how everyone (and I mean literally everyone except me) thinks that SAF might just be an extremely inexperienced townie. Considering the mess with Foolhard and how I’ve interpreted newbie behavior as suspicious before, I think being cautious and holding off on voting for her is a good plan, at least for now. I don’t want to vote for her unless I’m at least 90% sure she’s not town, maybe even more. I’d say I’m around 50-60% sure, right now.


I’m not sure how I feel about not lynching today because I’m used to lynching every day in Mafia, but I don’t necessarily feel comfortable lynching today either. While I have a few people I’m suspicious of, I don’t think I can make a strong enough argument that any one person is definitely Cult or definitely the Serial Killer. I think it’ll be okay if we don’t lynch today, though, as long as we lynch tomorrow and still keep discussion going.
 

Vivid Stardust

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(Also, I just realized I messed up Moonwatcher’s pronouns. Sorry, dude! I’ll use the correct ones from now on.)
 

Typhlosion

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@Varhii if the Serial Killer is targeted for a kill and a heal, would the autovest trigger before the heal takes effect?

The fact that this game did not start out with a mafia team makes coaching discussions interesting. We only had two scum to begin with, not aligned with each other. Assuming CL recruited successfully last night, we're dealing with at most a scum team of 2. Now, based on her D1 play, SAF doesn't strike me as a particularly tempting choice for cult recruitment, but it's possible she's the full-blown Cult Leader, and the coaching is a more experienced recruit trying to help out their leader. However, I really can't see that happening; I'm not sure a recent convert from Town in a cult that's still very small would want that kind of attention. So, I'm not inclined to view the "coaching" that's been going on as anything more than altruistic advice.
Maybe now can be a good time to specualate more on power roles.

Power roles have different categories, yeah? Like others said on day one, we have the attacking roles, like vigilante and gunsmith. The defensive roles, like doctor, weak doctor and bodyguard. There are other roles, that act as disruptive, like dancer and bus driver. Then the investigative roles, like sheriff, watcher and tracker. Now, in a game like this where there's only one evil killing role, I doubt there would be more than one defensive role. So if there's a doctor, there's less chance of having a weak doctor or a bodyguard as well. So fake claiming attacked and healed would be very risky, because the real doctor/weak doctor/bodyguard could counterclaim and say they didn't save him.
Hmm? What's up with this? Day 1 you were adamant about not speculating about power roles. We now have one dead power role confirmed, but while that allows us to possibly make better speculations, I can't see that it changes whether or not speculating at all is a good idea. Why do you want to do this now?
- Seems to think that Vigilante is still a possibility
My policy is to keep in mind that everything can be a possibility. We have four unconfirmed TPRs so yes, Vigilante is certainly still a possibility. The reason I've been more focused on this one is exposure therapy that the Vigilante is the only role that can directly kill at night aside from the SK, and is also opposite in alignment to it. If two people are shooting at night, that makes it much harder to narrow down motivations and suspects for certain kills.
On another note, in your reads list, out of all the people you list as town leans only myself and Wiktoria are tagged as possible TPRs. What brings you to this conclusion? I'm just interested why you think that way, because nothing that I can see in your points would differentiate that.

On tonight's episode of A_T Does Controversial Stuff: /vote SAF @SAF
Apparently I learned nothing from Foolhard. But. Vivid's (beautiful) reads list pulled some stuff together for me. Especially seeing the word "cornered" again. That's just...an almost-beyond-words level of weird thing to say. If you're Town and you feel cornered because you're getting pressure for a couple ill-advised plays, falling off the face of the earth is the exact opposite of how to handle that. If you feel cornered because you're getting pressure and you're not Town...well then. But to be clear, since I guess I started a bandwagon last time, I'm not looking to lynch SAF with this vote. Y'all will know when that comes. Hopefully she'll learn from what Foolhard either didn't know to do or refused to do: no bones about it, I think I'd like to see a claim now. At this point, if she keeps up the utter radio silence I would take that as a sign of guilt. If she's genuinely Town she has absolutely no reason not to work with us.
 

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@Typhlosion The Heal has priority over the Autovest.
 

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Oh really. How curious. Tbh I expected it to go the other way but doesn't matter to me.

I don't wanna let the SAF thing go now, but the reason I asked and another reason to think about Vig is that Godot could be 100% telling the truth and be our SK. I sure do love how in Mafia there's always a thousand ways things can go.
 

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Um, guys, sorry for the whole mess. I've been away because of stuffs irl and it's been quite hectic there, so I'll share my thoughts later, 'kay?
 

Vivid Stardust

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On another note, in your reads list, out of all the people you list as town leans only myself and Wiktoria are tagged as possible TPRs. What brings you to this conclusion? I'm just interested why you think that way, because nothing that I can see in your points would differentiate that.
Ack, for some reason I forgot to mention that I think Mystical is also a TPR.

The reason why I think you two are possible TPRs is because of the way you’re playing. You’ve both been pushing for lynches, heavily questioning people, and trying to get information. While Citizens can do that too, based on the tone of your posts, I don’t think you’re just a Citizen. It’s entirely possible that you’re the Vigilante, and you’re trying to figure out who the Cult Leader and Serial Killer are on your own so you can shoot them and win for town. The reason why you’re so focused on the idea of a Vigilante is because you are the Vigilante. But that’s just my theory.

Biohazard has been questioning pretty hard, but her posts have a different tone. She seems to be looking for information for all of town, but she’s also being very forward about it. Meanwhile, Mystical’s tone is more serious and focused on finding the Cult and Serial Killer. You and Biohazard have been questioning everyone fairly equally, but Mystical has been focused on suspicious people specifically (at least in my opinion).

Also, why do you go from saying that the advice people were giving SAF was just advice rather than showing a Cult relationship to voting for SAF suddenly? It seems a bit inconsistent.


@SAF I’m glad you showed up. A lot of us would really like an explanation about your posts, especially some of the wording you used. I personally would like to know why you felt like you were “cornered” when everyone was discussing how your posts were suspicious. If you’re town, there’s no reason for you to feel cornered. Just try to explain what you meant by your posts as best you can.
 

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Okay. First things first, as I said before, I'm a total newbie here. I did read some mafia games before, but jumping into the action myself feels, y'know, different. I'm still looking forward to learning everything here, though. :happyazurill:

And about my past actions, I first tried to take it slow by opting to skip day 1, but that Foolhard situation back then made me couldn't think clearly anymore, hence the cornered feeling and wanting to give up. That, and the offline stuffs caught up to me, so I took a pretty long absence up until recently. Sorry about that, guys. :pensiveazurill:
 

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Also, why do you go from saying that the advice people were giving SAF was just advice rather than showing a Cult relationship to voting for SAF suddenly? It seems a bit inconsistent.
That's a fair point, probably didn't explain myself well enough. The whole bit about coaching wasn't so much about SAF herself, but rather that I thought the people who appeared to be coaching her (Luke for instance) didn't seem suspicious to me for that reason.
Okay. First things first, as I said before, I'm a total newbie here. I did read some mafia games before, but jumping into the action myself feels, y'know, different. I'm still looking forward to learning everything here, though. :happyazurill:

And about my past actions, I first tried to take it slow by opting to skip day 1, but that Foolhard situation back then made me couldn't think clearly anymore, hence the cornered feeling and wanting to give up. That, and the offline stuffs caught up to me, so I took a pretty long absence up until recently. Sorry about that, guys. :pensiveazurill:
First off I do hope everything is going better irl and I don't want this to ever create problems for you there!

Just for my benefit, so I can understand, could you tell me what it was about the Foolhard situation that made you react so strongly? I'm not seeing the connection with how that could have made you want to give up. Nobody wants you to give up!

Next priority is to do some reads of my own. I'll do my best to get it done in this phase, because while I'm uncomfortable with the idea of not lynching today, I don't have a clear idea yet of who a target could be.
 

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Quick message to say I am extremely sorry for not fulfilling my promise last night. I had had a very bad end to the day and spent the rest of the evening knocking back drinks. Suffice it to say I'm paying for it now. I will now spend the time writing up the rest of my reads and any further responses I wish to make. Once again, sorry for my terrible life choices.
 

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@Typhlosion hmm, I'd like to say that it's from my gut feeling, but even my own "gut feeling" wasn't that clear back then, so I was simply frustrated when I basically said that I wanna give up and that's excluding irl stuffs. Is that enough?

Also, to @Moonwatcher, @LuluRina, @Luke Strife, and @Godot, I thank you for all your advices (some may sound pretty harsh, but still...). Whatever role you guys may think I am, I'm still a newbie, so I shall keep your advices in mind for next time. Again, thank you. :happyazurill:
 

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@Typhlosion well, I'm mostly giving people without as much experience a general idea of what they can expect. In case town ever needs to claim. Sorry if it was a risky move, though I was trying not to go into specific roles, just categories of roles.

@SAF what are your impressions on the day so far? A few people have given their impressions on other people. Do you agree with any? Is there anything you'd like to add? Or something that has caught your interest?
 

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@Mystical I still can't really conclude who's what, but tbh I kinda agree with this:
Mystical/Isa: She’s currently my strongest townread at the moment.
- If she was Cult Leader and genuinely thought that discussing possible TPRs would benefit the Cult, she wouldn't have tried to stop the conversation she would have encouraged it. She also wouldn't have questioned me about why I was interested in the roles list.

- She said that she did not want to no lynch on day one if possible. Even though she didn't vote for anyone, she wanted to discuss lynching, rather than just skipping the day. Generally, people in town want to lynch unless it's a MYLO situation. See: Curry's play in "Return to a Simple Tale".

- While she didn't vote for him, she did say that she was wary of Foolhard's behavior, and that she wanted to keep an eye on him and Godot (who had been acting suspiciously according to Isa as well). I think this shows that she wants to think things through, and while she wants to help town, she doesn't want to get a mislynch if it can be helped.


- She tried to get SAF to actually answer questions, rather than just pointing out how suspiciously she was acting.

- Trying to analyze the votes on Foolhard to try and scumhunt is definitely a town move.

- Questioning others' responses on the thread consistently

Typhlosion: Townread, TPR

- Questioning everyone consistently, much like Mystical/Isa

- Answers everyone's questions even though we have no reason to be suspicious of him (This is good town play, in my opinion.)

- Has not been afraid to call people out on things they say that don't sound right (Myself, Godot, Moonwatcher, etc.)

- Seems to think that Vigilante is still a possibility

- He seems to want everyone to talk, much like Mystical. He won't let anything slide in terms of votes and posts, and he seems to have been keeping up with the thread the whole time.
If you ask me why, that's because I was on the receiving end of your and Typhlosion's shoutouts. My mind is clearer now, so I could accept that my past reactions were bad.

Btw, I don't think I can respond to anything else for several hours because it's already night where I am. Nighty night~
 
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